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  • Originally posted by Fraquar View Post
    To quote the line from that TV program "To this day I cannot unsee what my eyes have seen". Want a different reaction from the fans put a different vision in their heads.
    And to this day, it's impossible to turn the clock back and change the past either. If you want a different performance from the team, don't judge it by what happened in the past, and give it a chance to put things right now and in the future.

    That doesn't mean that fury and embarrassment was the wrong response on Monday. It was the right one. If we weren't angry, we'd have given up; if we lose our passion, there's nothing left. It does mean that calls for Patricia's head or booing Stafford is just ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is suggesting this is Millen and Mornhinweg all over again. Based on what? One freaking game?!

    No. It's nothing "all over again". This GM, this HC and this team should stand or fall on what it does now: this season, next season, and (hopefully) the season after. Not on what a succession of failed GMs, HCs and teams did in the past.

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    • Originally posted by -Deborah- View Post

      thebigfeller, welcome to the Forum! I so appreciate your point of view, it's pretty unique around these parts. Please don't take it too personally when you get some resistance. I don't think we can let go of the past. Been burned too many times.
      Thanks Deb! And no, I won't; I completely understand it, because it's the most human thing there is.

      In life, we all face the challenge of moving forwards, not back. Of trying to learn from the past, but not being so traumatised by it that we freeze, miss our opportunities, or hide from them. Most humans have that experience at many different points; we are usually our own worst enemies, our own worst critics.

      And when it comes to a sporting organisation like the Lions (or, in different ways, like the Indians now, or the pre-2016 Cubs, or the pre-2004 Red Sox, or the pre-2017 Eagles, or the Vikings, or the Browns, or others too), it's that much harder for new people to win, because the slate is never truly cleaned until that longed-for Championship is finally secured. At any point until then, so many fans and so much of the media expect it to go wrong; expects history to repeat itself. Which becomes a completely self-fulfilling prophecy all too easily. Just as, in relationships and dating, if we expect things to go wrong, they usually do.

      I'm English. In the summer, for the first time in my life, my national soccer team let go of the past, stopped reminding itself of its excruciatingly snakebitten history, and my God, it actually enjoyed itself in Russia. The English public rediscovered the sheer fun of just following its team. And sure, we came up short in the end - but we made huge progress, gave people wonderful memories, and laid a platform for the future. That's more than could've been asked for really.

      The only time in my life when the Lions did something similar was 1991. It's almost as though Mike Uttley's awful injury freed the players and the fans from their fears. Because no matter what happened thereafter that season, nothing could compare to what Uttley now faced; it put everything into perspective. I will always laud that team. It did amazing things and dragged itself as far as it possibly could, with the whole city and state of Michigan behind it.

      Letting go of the past is hard. Really hard. Human beings form scar tissue internally. We can't see it, but we know it's there, and it holds us back. But as a fanbase, it's what we have to do. As an organisation, it's what we have to do. But even if everything does fall apart under Patricia, the worst thing that can happen is we start again under someone else. And we keep grinding and keep battling and keep trying to learn and keep moving forwards until one day, we get it right.
      Last edited by thebigfeller; September 14th, 2018, 02:51 PM.

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      • Originally posted by thebigfeller View Post
        The OP, of course, was in jest. Anyone who thinks a new Head Coach should be fired after one game should be sent to a padded room.

        There have long been many serious, endemic problems with this organisation. Everyone on this forum knows about them. But 60 years of futility

        - Is not Matt Patricia's fault

        - Is not Bob Quinn's fault

        - Really isn't Martha Firestone Ford's fault either

        When her husband passed away, she took action, cleaned house, and tried, at long last, to start a new culture. Quinn was the next piece in that; and after giving Caldwell more than enough time, Patricia followed.

        So now, we start again. Under a new HC with completely new ideas; ideas which, it would appear, have upset lazy, complacent players. Naturally so, given they've been part of a soft, win-a-few-lose-a-few-eight-and-eight-is-fine-isn't-it organisation for years.

        Throughout sport, many teams start out under new management and look a shambles. Few, admittedly, quite as much as we did on Monday - but that this year's 7 new head coaches are a collective 0-7 after Week 1 really ought to tell people something.

        The problem with fans who've been through as much as we have is it's so, so hard to start afresh. Forget the past, focus on the here and now, and give new people a proper chance. Because we've seen it all before, haven't we? There's just something about this team, isn't there? Only the Lions could possibly start a season this badly, huh?

        Well, no. Laying a massive goose egg can happen to any team at any time. By far the greatest Lions team of my lifetime, 1991, could not have been more humiliated in both its opening game, and in San Francisco too... yet it ended up exceeding itself beyond imagination. I'm not saying that's going to happen in this case at all; there is indeed every chance of 0-2, 0-3, 0-5 or worse. Or alternatively, maybe we'll bounce back?

        Every aspect of the team failed completely on Monday. The offense failed, the defense failed, the special teams failed, the coaching failed, the calls were sussed by the opponents. It was a total humiliation. A train wreck, the worst embarrassment ever, the most Lions thing ever, call it what you want - but it was also only one game. So we go again; we move forwards. And however loyal so many fans are, booing Stafford after he'd been badly hurt twice and has inspired us so many times over the years says much, much more about us than him... while constantly expecting the sky to fall in is literally to invite it to happen.

        Cleaning house starts with us: the fans. Let go of the past, people! Because if you don't, it'll be impossible for anyone here.
        Welcome to the discussion, bigfeller.

        Pointing out that previous failures are not Quinn, Patricia, or Mama Ford's fault is very chivalrous but, does not let them off the hook for contributing to the continued lack of success and National embarrassment.

        .....and revisiting the '91 season just re-confirms that Lions traveling West have a problem with game day. So, instead of being week one for the loss on the left coast, this year it will be week two which suggests, the season will not be close to mimicking the '91 season.

        ....the booing in the stands was because the paying customers felt they should be getting more for their investment in entertainment. Since the NFL will not allow the home team to script the outcome, it should come as no surprise when the home team stinks up the joint with their participation.

        Cleaning house starts at the top. Not the bottom. The top has tried to sell you snake oil for a long time and the fans keep running back to buy it.

        Fans have a right to boo when they have to make the kind of investment that the Franchise requires for admittance. Otherwise, just watch on TV and change the channel, usually the cheaper option.
        I long for a Lions team that is consistently competitive.

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        • Welcome bigfeller.
          GO LIONS "19" !!

          Take us to the promised land Matthew.

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          • Originally posted by thebigfeller View Post

            And to this day, it's impossible to turn the clock back and change the past either. If you want a different performance from the team, don't judge it by what happened in the past, and give it a chance to put things right now and in the future.

            That doesn't mean that fury and embarrassment was the wrong response on Monday. It was the right one. If we weren't angry, we'd have given up; if we lose our passion, there's nothing left. It does mean that calls for Patricia's head or booing Stafford is just ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is suggesting this is Millen and Mornhinweg all over again. Based on what? One freaking game?!

            No. It's nothing "all over again". This GM, this HC and this team should stand or fall on what it does now: this season, next season, and (hopefully) the season after. Not on what a succession of failed GMs, HCs and teams did in the past.
            Until teams change, they are the same.

            Here's a tip. Don't get caught up in stats or even W/L's - get caught up in what is happening in those W/L's. Study the 2007 season, it's a blueprint for any fan to not get carried away in the W/L column, stats, etc. That team with the exception of the Denver game was playing bad football and getting away with it (6-2 start). They had the benefit of playing quite a few backup and 3rd string QB's during that 6-2 start. The signs where there for anyone who kept an open mind and just looked at the quality of play that things were going to come crashing down.

            There is a humongous difference between a good team winning ugly and an ugly team winning. The former isn't relied on much and the latter isn't sustainable by any means.

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            • Welcome to the forum TheBig””StephenKing”Feller. Will need to set aside some time and get the kettle on to read your posts.

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              • Originally posted by Marko69 View Post
                Welcome to the forum TheBig””StephenKing”Feller. Will need to set aside some time and get the kettle on to read your posts.
                And make some popcorn.
                I'm a legend in wcfwtf's mind.

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                • Originally posted by Fraquar View Post

                  Until teams change, they are the same.

                  Here's a tip. Don't get caught up in stats or even W/L's - get caught up in what is happening in those W/L's. Study the 2007 season, it's a blueprint for any fan to not get carried away in the W/L column, stats, etc. That team with the exception of the Denver game was playing bad football and getting away with it (6-2 start). They had the benefit of playing quite a few backup and 3rd string QB's during that 6-2 start. The signs where there for anyone who kept an open mind and just looked at the quality of play that things were going to come crashing down.

                  There is a humongous difference between a good team winning ugly and an ugly team winning. The former isn't relied on much and the latter isn't sustainable by any means.
                  Oh, I always watch what's happening in those W/Ls. I rarely get that carried away in one direction or another - but in my life, I've never seen a Lions team which, well coached, would or even could have won it all. That includes the 92-96 period under Fontes. Yes, he made a mess of the QB situation after '91 - a ginormous mess - but no way, no way did they ever have enough to, in a playoff game or on the road, knock off the Cowboys, 49ers or, later in the decade, the Packers. Mostly, but not solely, because of the O-line, which never recovered from the double tragedy which engulfed it.

                  It's because I watch what's happening in those W/Ls that I didn't get that excited in 2014; I was just pleased that, the Bills game aside, they were winning all the games they realistically could. And obviously, like surely most people, 2016 didn't fool me at any point. 2011 didn't either. No balance to that team... and what successful teams across all sports have in common is balance. Neither one thing, nor the other.

                  Actually building an organisation capable of winning it all will take years. What I've been very encouraged by is, since mid-2015, an acknowledgement by the Lions, probably for the first time in my life, that they know how much they've messed up continually, they know how deep-rooted the problems have been in the entire organisation, and they know there's no quick fix either. So for maybe the first time, they're trying to do things properly. And y'know, it might all collapse quicker than a souffle; Patricia might be completely the wrong fit, so might Quinn. But at least they're trying... and until mid-2015, I'm really not sure that could even be said.

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                  • They're cute when they're young
                    In Columbus, of course, the fanbase holds the University accountable for doing the wrong thing. -Talent, Esq-

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                    • No they're not (anymore) fuck that

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                      • Originally posted by WingsFan View Post
                        No they're not (anymore) fuck that
                        What's your reply in response to? I'm not getting any context if you replied to one of my blocked users without you quoting them.
                        SHOW me, don't TELL me. Still waiting....

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                        • CGVT is on your blocked list?

                          Saying "They're cute when they're young"

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                          • TY
                            SHOW me, don't TELL me. Still waiting....

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                            • I think this guy is in the Lions PR department.

                              If somebody could pass that along to Gonz.....

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                              • Originally posted by dpatnod View Post
                                I think this guy is in the Lions PR department.

                                If somebody could pass that along to Gonz.....
                                For the record, "this guy" is English and lives in Uruguay. The Lions PR department couldn't afford me.

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