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  • What we need here to further the discussion on Israel and Palestine is Doc Hodgeman.

    A repository of a rational history of the ME so, talent, when I used the term problematic in describing DJT's actions re Jerusalem it pertained only to the reality that what Trump did and what the implications of what he did mean cannot be explained in a 90s news piece.

    When Bush I invaded Iraq and then withdrew after a successful military operation without a fucking plan to stabilize that tribal shit hole, Doc and I had some great exchanges ..... all of this on World Crossing. Opinionated Ed may remember.

    At that time, politically, I was as close to a Neocon as one could get and argued the strategic necessity of a strong US (military and political) ME presence. That was a bad take and demonstrated I knew nothing about the history and complexity of that region.

    I do now and agree with Ed Balzar = Opinionated Ed, = et. al., that Hillary would have been a fucking disaster for US Foreign policy on multiple levels (another discussion). I voted for Trump for the same reason holding my nose along the way to the ballot box.

    Anywho, my view is the two state solution is dead and has been for a long time. It's hard to figure what DJT's objectives are in yesterday's announcement. Because I'm a glass half full kind of guy, I tend to think the people around him telling him to do what he did know what they are doing ..... and some of here may not agree with it when it becomes apparent. That's where Doc, if he cared to, could add some history and perspective.

    If I were to guess from 10K feet, it fits Trump's role as a disruptor and in this case the status-quo in the ME re the Hamas-Iran-Palestinian circle jerk, SA's-Arab Emirates-Qatar's continuing soap opera in robes and Israel-US ties.

    The Iranians have long been satisfied with death to the US by a Thousand Paper-Cuts. Trump just elevated the stakes. Iran may find itself in less control of events than they like. SA/the Emirates (and probably the Europeans), are going to have to shift their focus from their petty and mostly tribal local shit-storms and onto the Palestinian Diaspora ..... who tend, world-wide nonetheless - to get all riled up when shit like this goes down on their brothers. The Saudis (read Sunnis), in particular, don't like this kind of crap among angry Palestinians and their often terror oriented backers and what it means for relationships with it's Iranian (read Shia) neighbors.

    As an aside and consistent with Trump the disruptor, it's worth mentioning that in the conduct of an annual, routine USAF Excericse 2d ago, there's some speculation that USAF B1Bs and F35s flew undetected into NK airspace and possibly over NK nuke and ICBM launch facilities. Even the exercise is considered provocative to NK and has been for years. But if the speculation is accurate, the stakes in that area of the world were just raised by the Trumpster. It demonstrates that the US has the capability to conduct limited military operations to damage critical NK nodes that coordinate the staging, arming, and loading of missile launches.

    Fun times.
    There is such a thing as redemption. Jim Harbaugh is redeemed at the expense of a fading Ryan Day and OSU. M wins back to back games v. OSU first time since 1999-2000​ - John Cooper was fired in 2000!!!

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    • I've only been through Heathrow, but that was the one time I couldn't fathom what the dude was saying. It was a customs agent and I had to ask him to repeat his question at least two times.

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      • Originally posted by AlabamAlum View Post
        And, Ed, your daughter, many years ago, was considering UAB. Where did she end up?
        My eldest daughter is back in Huntsville/Madison, and is in a mixed marriage. She is a Tide fan, and his family are Auburn grads.

        My second daughter is still in Birmingham, Pellham area, she loves it there.
        Whatever...

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        • I do now and agree with Ed Balzar = Opinionated Ed, = et. al., that Hillary would have been a fucking disaster for US Foreign policy on multiple levels (another discussion). I voted for Trump for the same reason holding my nose along the way to the ballot box.

          DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS, LARRYS? DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS?

          (Sorry, but come the fuck on. Hillary is an awful person there's no doubt, but we could see this coming a while away. Say what you will about her or Cheney, but at least they had the decency to pretend to care about the integrity of the system. Trump walks around screaming I'M A KLEPTOCRAT AND DON'T CARE at the top of his voice every minute of every day. There never was and never will be a valid excuse. You own it.)

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          • Originally posted by SeattleLionsFan View Post
            TBH, I had much more difficulty understanding Londoners than the scots.
            WTF? Add another way that one person can judge another.

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            • Originally posted by Ed Balzer View Post
              As a progressive I hid it well, by supporting a Jew for president.

              FYI... after the Dem primary was stolen by the most corrupt person on the planet, I voted for Trump in the general.
              Serious question. Which of Sanders policies did you support that you believed would be advanced more effectively by The Donald than by Hillary? Seems to me that Trump had been about as contrary to Sanders as it is possible to be.
              To be a professional means that you don't die. - Takeru "the Tsunami" Kobayashi

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              • Originally posted by Ed Balzer View Post
                My eldest daughter is back in Huntsville/Madison, and is in a mixed marriage. She is a Tide fan, and his family are Auburn grads.

                My second daughter is still in Birmingham, Pellham area, she loves it there.

                Excellent.
                "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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                • Good Lord...OpEd lives?

                  I motion to kill Ed...all those in favor...
                  Shut the fuck up Donny!

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                  • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post
                    When Bush I invaded Iraq and then withdrew after a successful military operation without a fucking plan to stabilize that tribal shit hole, Doc and I had some great exchanges ..... all of this on World Crossing. Opinionated Ed may remember.

                    At that time, politically, I was as close to a Neocon as one could get and argued the strategic necessity of a strong US (military and political) ME presence. That was a bad take and demonstrated I knew nothing about the history and complexity of that region.
                    The internet is a great thing, and I still remember finding the CNNSI forum back in 1997. Most of us then moved over to WorldCrossing, to Talent's Something Forum, to the Michigan Forum, and to the Megasite.

                    Regarding politics; most of our views have matured over time, both through the availability of information and mellowing due to years. Everybody here has shown that despite strong differences in opinion, that spirited hostile debate is fun. It's good to be back!
                    Whatever...

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                    • Originally posted by hack View Post
                      Say what you will about [Hillary] or Cheney, but at least they had the decency to pretend to care about the integrity of the system.
                      Eff the system.
                      Whatever...

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                      • Define ``the system"?

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                        • Originally posted by SeattleLionsFan View Post
                          Serious question. Which of Sanders policies did you support that you believed would be advanced more effectively by The Donald than by Hillary? Seems to me that Trump had been about as contrary to Sanders as it is possible to be.
                          Let me start by saying that Hillary is corruption incarnate, she and her allies control the departments of Justice and State. They are the biggest swamps that needed to be drained.

                          For 24 years (perhaps longer) under the Bush, Clinton and Obama administrations good paying middle class jobs have been our biggest export. Obama and Clinton supported TPP and TPIP, and both Sanders and Trump opposed them. I'm still waiting for Talent to explain why TPP was good.

                          The 'Arab Spring' was a neoliberal astroturf effort to accomplish regime change in the Mideast, and it most successfully targeted Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Syria. Obama and his Secretary of State escalated Bush's wars and took ownership of them. To Trump's credit, he has deescalated the conflicts in Syria and Iraq.

                          There can be no quicker potential demise to humanity than a hot war with Russia that could turn nuclear. Hillary wanted war with Russia over the Ukraine and Syria. Trump was the adult in the room.

                          Other than those issues that I consider most important, Trump sucks worse than Hillary. But if Hillary was the Democrat nominee in 2016, she would also be in 2020. I want Sanders to run in 2020, and her not being there makes that possible.

                          Here is someone else who agrees with me...

                          As long as America is still talking about Hillary Clinton, I may as well take this opportunity to say a bit more about why I’m still…
                          Last edited by Ed Balzer; December 7, 2017, 02:24 PM.
                          Whatever...

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                          • Originally posted by hack View Post
                            (Sorry, but come the fuck on. Hillary is an awful person there's no doubt, but we could see this coming a while away. Say what you will about her or Cheney, but at least they had the decency to pretend to care about the integrity of the system. Trump walks around screaming I'M A KLEPTOCRAT AND DON'T CARE at the top of his voice every minute of every day. There never was and never will be a valid excuse. You own it.)
                            Originally posted by Ed Balzer View Post
                            Eff the system.
                            Originally posted by hack View Post
                            Define "the system"?
                            Whatever Hillary and Cheney cared to preserve the decency of.

                            To me that is legally codified two party rule, neither of which represents my interests.
                            Last edited by Ed Balzer; December 7, 2017, 02:20 PM.
                            Whatever...

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                              • Ed,

                                I think I disagree with about everything in your post, and think at least half your facts may be wrong (although I'm not as up on foreign policy as maybe I should be) but I appreciate sharing your thoughts. It makes sense to me as explained!
                                To be a professional means that you don't die. - Takeru "the Tsunami" Kobayashi

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