Michigan @ Michigan State, Game Day - Post Game Discussion.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Some of it is water finding its level too. You can't score home runs on 3* recruits forever.

The problem is beyond that as I see it from 10K feet.

MSU is loosing to teams with equal or less talent.

What I've not seen under Dantonio up until know is a disaster the scope of this season. Talent/experience or not, this one is hard to understand. Dantonio is a very good HC .........

Froot, I'm wondering if MD has done more delegating? What I'm seeing in watching the MSU games is a sideline reminiscent of the Hoke era at M. Maybe I'm reading in to this too much but things just don't seem to be clicking and that discourages the players. In the past, it seemed like when there was a misstep or a bump in the road the team got right back on track. This year its like a death spiral ....... hope they don't pull out of it against M.

[froot loops]

I think a main thing is they lost a lot on both lines, some of the guy's they expected to contribute haven't contributed or in the case of Craig Evans and Montez Sweat, they left the team. Evans was really good last year. On the DL they are playing two converted offensive lineman and on the OL, they are playing young guys.

The three star thing would be more convincing if they were not capping the bed against Maryland and Indiana.

[iam416]

Dantonio has managed to have pretty good QB play for the bulk of his tenure despite not really recruiting any big-time QB studs.

He started out with Hoyer and then went to Cousins. They struggled in Cousins first year, but then were good the next two. They then transitioned from Cousins to Cook via Maxwell, and the Maxwell year was crap.

They're now stuck with god-awful QB play. It's not quite so simplistic -- the defense isn't as good as it has been, either. But when your QB is as bad as it has been for them this season, the offense -- the power run game -- gets crushed.

[Rocky Bleier]

The more I think about it this game is beginning to scare me. I don't think MSU is as bad as their record indicates. They still have good players at WR, RB, and TE. If the O-Line can somehow handle the Michigan pressure, it could be interesting. Can Ben Gedeon cover a RB? Will the middle of the field be wide open as it was against Colorado? Thus far, the defense hasn't been tested because they've stopped the run and smothered inexperienced QBs.

I was hoping that Bullough would miss at least the first half. He's their leader on the defense. McDowell will probably wreak havoc with Braden and Bredeson. Illinois hit Speight a ton in the last game, and I'm sure MSU's DC noticed. This game should be close at the half. Michigan may even find themselves behind. Too many people predicting a blowout for my comfort.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Thanks Froot......even if it's a low scoring, slug fest Rocky I'm still confident of an M win. The unit mismatches are substantial. M's play would have to regress a ton to give MSU a win. I don't see that happening.

[Tom W]

It would scare me more if this were a Lloyd Carr team that had been used to kicking Sparty around for the last eight years or so.

[froot loops]

That's a good point, as great if a good Lloyd Carr was, he could be goaded into some sort of toughness contest that was less about the score. I don't think Harbaugh is tethered by that, he will just want to put as many points as he can on the scoreboard.

Lloyd did that once, in Bobby Williams final game, then he gave probably the most disingenuous defense of Bobby Williams in the post game. Harbaugh won't be bothered by that.

[WM Wolverine]

Talent said it before I could chime in, QB play has taken a huge nosedive. Major losses on the both lines to graduation, early entry & transfer and mediocre B1G talent everywhere else.

[Pasadena Blue]

i'm still skered..... just don't like rivalry games where everyone is predicting one side to dominate

[WM Wolverine]

This year there is nothing to be scared of in regards to Sparty; M is too good defensively and M takes care of the ball too well.

Yeah, it could only be a 10 point win if every ball bounces Sparty's way.

[Niffla]

i'm still skered..... just don't like rivalry games where everyone is predicting one side to dominate

Me either

[drok]

i'm still skered..... just don't like rivalry games where everyone is predicting one side to dominate

The possibilities of every rivalry game:
1) Fan of team predicted to dominate
2) Fan of team predicted to be dominated
3) Fan of team as slight favorite
4) Fan of team as slight underdog
5) Fan of team in a pick 'em

I'd choose option #1 every time.

[Detroit Dan]

That's a good point, as good as Lloyd Carr was, he could be goaded into some sort of toughness contest that was less about the score. I don't think Harbaugh is tethered by that, he will just want to put as many points as he can on the scoreboard.

Well said. One of Harbaugh/Drevno/Fisch's finest traits is that they keep attacking on offense even after getting a sizeable lead. There have been no meaningful comebacks this year aside from the 1 TD Wisconsin scored.

[Detroit Dan]

IMHO, it doesn't matter what the fans predict. If everyone here predicts Michigan to win by 50, it will have no impact on the outcome of the game. As drok implied, the causation runs the other way.

[Jeff Buchanan]

So, reading all the stuff that's out there and that stuff serving as my scouting, here's my take on the M @ MSU game:

MSU's biggest problem on offense may be the OL, not QB. The OL is a veritable mess that has prevented run game production from three decent Bs (Holmes, Scott and London) who are not burners but pose a credible run threat. The QB mess, equally bad, isn't helping the run game by being credible passers either.

At QB, whether it's O'connor, Terry or Lewerke, none of them have shown the consistency necessary to lock down the job. Every one of them have seemingly fatal flaws impeding MSU's ability to both run the ball and move the chains. The tried and true football maxim the run sets up the pass just isn't happening for MSU this season.

We will witness one of the best if not the best front 7 and overall defense in the nation versus an offense that ranks 92nd nationally ...... worst in the state of Michigan. It takes a lot of imagination to predict a win for MSU.

Bottom line: if MSU is able to move the chains and score points it is going to be because M has given them a short field as a result of ST or turnovers on offense. Eliminate those errors and MSU is going to get shut out.

On defense, MSU has an equal number of problems. Maybe the most exploitable in this game is going to be MSU's inability to get pressure on Speight with 4 or even 5 guys doing that. That it appears that the M coaching staff has patched up the OL post the Newsome injury with Braden moving to LT and Bredenson taking his spot at LG doesn't give MSU any advantage that they might have gained with Newsome going down with an injury. MSU's front 7 are probably worse statistically and PFF grade wise than Illinois' and we've already seen the outcome of that match-up.

If Speight is able to demonstrate a credible passing threat becasue he has time to survey the field and make plays, and if the OL performs as well at the second level in the run game as it did v. Illinois, we'll likely see 250y plus in both the pass and the run game and a lot more plays run by M than by the Spartans. This does not forecast a good outcome for Sparty.

M does not have to play a perfect game to win this. MSU does. My view is that they are just too flawed to do that barring some sort of mojo, an unpredictable occurrence, that repeats itself in EL as it has in the past in both EL or AA. M is such a different team than it has been in the past with respect to this kind of thing, I think the likelihood of that happening is overcome by the reality that Harbaugh has turned this team, previously a good one, into an excellent one - fundamentally sound in every respect.

Finally, I don't think the home field for MSU gives them any advantage and that is a pure gut feeling regarding the mindsets of the players on opposing sides.

M 45 - MSU 7