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Michigan v Indiana - Post Game Discussion

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  • Michigan v Indiana - Post Game Discussion

    Moving on........

    I'm not sure on which channel you are going to view this game in your local area. It may not be completely sorted out. There is no competing ABC, ESPN or ESPN2 game at 3:30 and that's a bit weird. (osu @MSU is at noon, ABC, ESPN or ESPN2).

    Side note: Thought it was interesting that Iowa's win against M last night almost perfectly mirrored Iowa's win against a Harbaugh QB'ed M team in 1985.

    Anyway ...... As seemingly shocking and pretty much unexpected the loss at Iowa was last night, well, Kinnick, I don't think the prediction for this game is a lot different than it was to start the season. There was some trepidation about M facing Iowa at home to start the season but that concern dissipated. Apparently it was justified.

    IU has not beaten M since 1987 when Bill Mallory was their HC. M escaped Bloomington last year by pulling out the win, in OT, 48-41. You might enjoy this:

    I really like Kevin Wilson but IU is 9-55 v. M life time. Wilson, though, was a great choice for IU. I'm not sure they are as good as they were last season with Nate Sudfeld at QB and Rogers at tailback but they are still good and so is Wilson's offense. They are better on D. IU's performance against M in 2015, with M giving up 527 yards to IU, presaged the beating that osu inflicted on M the following Saturday in AA.

    So, I see this game as a preview of how well osu is going to do v. M in c-bus 11/26. IU's Lagow and Redding, though, are not anywhere near as good as jtb and Samuels who are both going to get to M's edge. So, there is that. Playing IU won't be anything like playing Iowa because the offenses are so radically different so, what you saw Iowa's offense do v. M's D will have no resemblance whatsoever to whatever IU's O will do to M's D. It will tell us something about how Brown and the players have either fixed or not fixed things against offenses like that are both similar in ufm's osu and Wilson's IU.

    There are those weaknesses that IU will exploit but M is better on D in 2016 than they were in 2017 and IU does not have the 1-2 punch on the groud that Sudfeld and Rogers brought to the game. I don't expect M to give up anywhere near 500 yards of offense to IU on Saturday.

    How M's offense will fare v. IU's D is another matter. At the very least, Speight has a left shoulder injury; not sure about his wrist and we're not going to hear anything about that unless he can't play at all. I don't think that is the case.

    I thought the Iowa D did a good job of playing zone on the back end, letting their LBs sit back in a 4-3 set most of the time, blitzing on passing downs and reacting quickly to every one of M's play calls that went outside. Ferents had Iowa well prepared. They challenged Speight to throw and he did early but when the pressure was applied - even a 4 man rush - he looked lost out there. The McDoom jet sweep and Peppers in the Wildcat got stuffed.

    I expect IU to play pretty much the same D v M. If Speight can't make the throws he needs to make, short or deep, M is going to struggle again. After predicting an easy win in Iowa City, I'm reluctant to say the same for this game v. IU.

    I actually had some early season concerns about this game but mostly saw it as a warm-up for osu. Not sure that is the case right now and it will depend on how the players react to the Hawkeye loss. ufm has a penchant for correcting problems and getting his players up for games after a loss. It will be interesting to see if Harbaugh can do the same with that leadership carrying over to produce a win in c-bus on 11/26.
    Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; November 13th, 2016, 10:45 AM.
    On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."

  • #2
    A feel good win against Indiana. Then more talk of how "All our goals are still intact," followed by a thrashing in Columbus. The season ended last night.
    I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.


    • #3
      Everybody knows to run on this defense, test the edges, and pass to the flats. I'll be looking for progress from the defense, and, if I see none, then it's probably not that reasonable to expect a win in Columbus.


      • #4
        Originally posted by hack View Post
        Everybody knows to run on this defense, test the edges, and pass to the flats. I'll be looking for progress from the defense, and, if I see none, then it's probably not that reasonable to expect a win in Columbus.
        Agreed. Too many weaknesses that might get us by IU but not against OSU. I'm afraid JT will have a field day against our defense and against the OSU defense I don't have much faith in our offense, either run or pass.
        Last edited by maxreturn; November 14th, 2016, 08:44 AM.


        • #5
          With a healthy Speight I have confidence in the offense. That was the first game ever where I felt like Harbaugh wasn't handling the offense well. It's gonna happen -- coaches have an off week too. Otherwise, Speight's been on a nice trajectory and you've got to presume that some of the things that suddenly look a little stale, like the toss sweeps, McDoom and wildcat, are that way because until now nobody gave Jim a reason to show more of the playbook than he already has.


          • #6
            The not showing plays stuff is, IMO, a convenient myth. If M had a workable play off the McDoom stuff or PepCat, the best place to use that would have been during M's last possession where all they needed was a first down to close the game out at 13-11. Instead, they ran Smith into the pile for no gain on first down, then put the PepCat package in and, to no one's surprise, he ran with it for no gain putting Speight in 3rd and long. Game over.

            That was the most unimaginative play calling in a critical situation were a first down was needed that I've seen from this team. So, no, I don't believe Harbaugh is hiding anything.
            On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


            • #7
              I'm completely open to what you're saying. Then again, Harbaugh didn't suddenly lose his very fertile imagination since last Saturday. Sometimes it's just an off week, perhaps.


              • #8
                Without Speight, really concerned about IU. His passing was needed to torch IU.


                • #9
                  If they play like they did against Iowa than yes, no chance. Considering the competition there's no comparison between Iowa and OSU. Meyer is a master at exploiting weekness in a team if he has time to prepare. That will be the case in the upcoming Game and UM will have to play out of their minds to keep the game close and maybe have a punchers chance to win at the end.


                  • #10
                    Where is the rumor coming from that Speight has a broken clavicle?


                    • #11
                      A phony twitter account.
                      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.


                      • #12
                        Harbaugh says he'll know about Wilton Speight later in the week. "It'll depend on how he feels" with his shoulder.
                        Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                        Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.


                        • #13
                          Harbaugh's gonna make IU prepare for both eventualities, presumably. There's no point in speculating, but that's what we'll do all week anyways, and that's only right and normal...


                          • #14
                            There is nothing right or normal about HARBAUGH!
                            Shut the fuck up Donny!


                            • #15
                              The Speight injury rumor is very sketchy. Nothing solid.

                              I saw the two hits that Speight took that might have caused a shoulder injury and I'll get to that. First, Speight had a fractured RIGHT Clavicle in high school that required internal fixation (screws) to repair. There were no long term negative effects.

                              The two blows to Speight's Left Shoulder occurred on two different plays. The first was a direct blow from a clean hit to his upper body from a DE on a blitz. It knocked him down on his right shoulder. He got up holding his left shoulder. He went to the sideline and there were plenty of shots of trainers checking his AC (Acromial Clavicular Joint) under his pads. Clearly, there was nothing amiss or he would have not gone back in.

                              The second blow was a result of a hit from a blitzing DE on his right upper body where he went down hard (with the DE on top of him) on his Left Shoulder. When he got up, he was cradling his left arm in a position close to his body suggesting an injury to his left clavicle. He was also massaging the L hand with his right hand and moving it around. Suggesting some numbness/nerve Apraxia - common with a blow to the arm like he sustained. I'm pretty sure this was M's last series so, if I'm correct, he didn't go back in. There were no sideline shots of trainers working on him. He did not go to the locker room or TV would have spotted it.

                              Harbaugh's Monday Presser ended about 90 minutes ago. He said nothing about Speight and no one asked - probably because they were told not to. Sam Webb posted a tweet where he said he asked Harbaugh if Speight would be a game time decision, he said, "could be." Also, something to the effect that, "we'll talk to the doctors and see how he feels".

                              In between the lines: There is nothing I've seen that suggests Speight has a Clavicular FX. There is plenty I've seen that suggests he has an AC joint injury. I believe there are either 3 or 5 grades of AC joint sprains and separations. These are very common injuries in football players. Based on the way he got up after the second hit, this isn't a sprain. It might have been sprained on the first blow and if anything there is probably some degree of AC separation from the second blow.

                              He's very likely had an XR and that's all you really need to see a complete separation. He's probably also had an MRI. That's going to tell you whether or not there is a tear in either of the two ligaments holding the AC joint together. I've not seen any posts regarding someone seeing him at the hospital or in a sling or not in a sling. A sling is the common therapeutic modality for AC joint injuries.

                              My best guess, based on putting all the pieces together, is that he has something a bit more than an AC joint sprain. Whatever the degree of injury, it is to his non throwing side or to his left AC joint. Henne played with a similar injury but to the AC joint on his throwing side. He was terrible. After it healed, he was phenominal in LC's last game v. UF.

                              You can tape the shit out of these injuries; you can inject with steroids (they're not going to do that if the injury involves any tearing of the ligaments.), you can whirlpool and mobilize them to decrease healing time. He will probably be able to and want to play but two things are going to affect his throwing motion: (1) Some degree of pain, (2) the fear of getting hit.

                              I think he can take the pain. I also think he gets a bit skitterish, and did get skitterish in the Iowa game, in the face of 300 lb DEs about to hit you. That's a head thing and, dont get me wrong, I'm not faulting Wilton for that. But it affects your mechanics, it affects your reads, it affects everything about throwing the football well.

                              So, the question for the staff will be (assuming Speight says he's fine and wants to play), is Speight at 70% v. IU better than O'Korn at 100% and can we afford to let Speight rest until the osu game to avoid further injury?

                              We're not going to hear anything official about this; we might get something in a tweet if Speight gets seen wearing a sling, going to the hospital and so forth. So, it's all speculative.

                              My best guess is that we're going to see O'Korn start v. IU and that's because he is likely going to get all the practice reps. The staff will hold Wilton out if they can, play him if they must. It's not optimum but this gives O'Korn a huge opportunity to step up and perform. Know one knows for sure if he's up to it. Guess we'll see.

                              Look at the bright side. We actually have two viable back-ups in stead of NO-ONE, AL!!
                              Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; November 14th, 2016, 02:08 PM.
                              On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."