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Minnesota @ Michigan, Saturday 11/4, 7:30p, FOX, Stream FoxGo

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  • I could not agree more

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    • I could not care less.
      Shut the fuck up Donny!

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      • The only announcer that comes to mind that knows what he's really talking about is Spielman ESPN wasted him for years sticking him with Pam Ward

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        • I really miss Spielman, he does NFL games and Lions pre-season, but no more college.

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          • I just finally got around to watching this game. Hooray for Tuesday 3 AM re-airs of Fox games on FS1!

            The 2017 Michigan Wolverines will go down as the most fucked-over-by-the-refs team in the history of college football. The "illegal block" on Kugler was another once-in-a-lifetime prizewinner.

            Harbaugh needs to start taking some basketball technicals in these games. That's what Tom Allen did against us this year (he didn't even get flagged) and it clearly worked. These fuckovers have got to stop. Some people have speculated that Harbaugh toned down his sideline demeanor this year in an attempt to placate the refs. If that was his intention, then it has failed miserably. Every game has Bo-in-the-Rose-Bowl refs now.

            Also -- there were only 106 snaps in this game. But the same amount of commercials, apparently. Way to NFL-ize the game, guys. The fans are just getting cheated.
            Last edited by Hannibal; November 7th, 2017, 08:24 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Hannibal View Post
              ......The 2017 Michigan Wolverines will go down as the most fucked-over-by-the-refs team in the history of college football.
              There's a piece at mgoboards that tries to analyze M's penalties and conclude if M is getting screwed.

              The results of this analysis don't support the contention that M is getting screwed by the refs in comparison to other teams M has played.

              The eyeball test supports the view that Big Ten refereeing is inconsistent at best, incompetent at worst. Frankly, from what I've seen, I'm not convinced individuals who should know don't know the rules. Evidence: they call penalties then have a mid-field conference and talk about if for 5 minutes and or, take an official's time out to review video on obvious calls already made.

              WTF. I don't see this in any other conferences. The refs seem to me to be assertive at the outset. Replay is left to the guys in the booth doing that who wil ring down to the White Hat should they think a mistake was made. The game moves on. I've got a bias because I really do think Big Ten refs are generally poor compared to their peers in other conferences.

              http://mgoblog.com/diaries/closer-lo...-penalty-stats
              On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."

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              • Reffing is bad. Bad, BAD, BAD. Sometimes it looks like it's on purpose. The refs in MSU/PSU consistently threw flags after the outcome of the play was determined, and it sure did look like homecooking, but with several of them replays showed the calls to be decent. Reffing is the ultimate example of that which should never be attributed to malice what you can to stupidity. At least in football and basketball, the sports I pay attention to, everyone is on the gravy train but the refs. Pay them, make them full-time, make the process and the gradings outcomes transparent. Heck, farm it out to some independent body or something. But protect the integrity of the sports, PLEASE.

                (Present company excluded of course. I'm sure Wiz is an excellent ref. He sucks at everything else, so there's got to be one thing he CAN do...)

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                • The refs get one crack at it at full speed and not always with best angle.

                  The more outrageous part of reffing is when the booth overturns calls badly or on less than indisputable evidence.

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                  • Tony Gerdeman of The Ozone who writes Michigan Monday picks up on three issues that M has to deal with going forward. As usual, he's pretty much spot on:

                    (1) Can Brandon Peters deliver when the need for him to do so is present? In the last two games he has played in (Rutgers and Minnesota) he hasn't been asked to deliver because the need wasn't there. So, it's too hard to judge his impact and effectiveness as M's QB yet.

                    (2) Pass protection remains suspect.

                    (3) M's Ss can be exploited.

                    https://theozone.net/2017/11/michiga...evoir-gophers/
                    On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."

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                    • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post
                      There's a piece at mgoboards that tries to analyze M's penalties and conclude if M is getting screwed.

                      The results of this analysis don't support the contention that M is getting screwed by the refs in comparison to other teams M has played.
                      I'm sorry but -- bullshit. When has this team ever benefitted from a call like the one that took a TD off the board in the Florida game? How many times this year have our D-linemen gotten undressed without a holding penalty? We had a TD called off the board against Air Force because of a holding penalty that wasn't. The refs are "inconsistent', but the inconsistency never favors us (except in the Purdue game). Have you ever seen a perfectly legal cut block like the one that Kugler delivered draw a 15-yard flag? I haven't -- literally ever. Triple option teams makes those blocks on almost every play. We also, if memory serves, haven't had an offensive pass interference flag on the opposition yet, even though they have been running picks constantly. I am seeing that penalty called in other games though, but never for us (MSU got flagged for it once or twice against PSU). And this year doesn't even include the epic screw job in last year's OSU game.

                      As I said in my previous post, we are getting Rose Bowl referees in every game now, and it has got to stop. Either Harbaugh needs to start taking basketball technicals or Warde Manuel needs to start raising hell.
                      Last edited by Hannibal; November 8th, 2017, 09:12 AM.

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                      • OSU game was notable.

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                        • You really have to dig in to the piece I linked to above. It is somewhat hard to understand.

                          Michigan ranks near the top of the list of CFB teams for committing penalties overall - the consensus for the cause is youth and inexperience.

                          Michigan ranks at the bottom of the list of CFB teams in drawing penalties from its opponents. There is no consensus for the cause. Possibly the lack of a passing game where the number of penalties on pass plays for all CFB teams is highest.

                          When you look across the smaller sample size of Michigan v. its 2017 opponents, the divergence seen above (all CFB teams) is much less. IOW, M isn't getting penalized more than it's 2017 opponents are nor is it drawing less penalties. Over the season, it's pretty even.

                          The other problem, despite small sample size, with the analysis is that it does not look at the quality or impact of the penalty. The author is thinking of ways to analyze this. I'm with Hannibal that the eyeball test says M gets more untimely, poor quality and impactful penalties than it's opponents this season ...... but that is from a very biased view point.

                          I remain suspicious of the quality of BT refereeing. As fans, we have no idea how a particular crew grades out after a game or how the grading is even done. IMO, it should be public information and the conference should be held accountable for keeping referees on the job who cross some established threshold for performance.

                          I know it's a hard job. I know there are bad angles from which to judge an infraction or consider where the ball should be placed. I know it takes split second judgement when applying a set of complex rules but neither of those things are reasons for poor quality officiating. That there is replay (even though I don't like how it is implemented and run), it seems to me, that the combination of insuring well trained and performing officials should produce near zero error rates in a game. If we had some way of knowing how BT officials are performing with that goal in mind, I suspect we'd find they are far from it.
                          On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."

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                          • Yeah I'm not sure why the refs have it out for you guys, I have only been watching for 35 years but it has been pretty consistent. They have always been out to get Penn State as well.

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                            • Originally posted by froot loops View Post
                              Yeah I'm not sure why the refs have it out for you guys, I have only been watching for 35 years but it has been pretty consistent. They have always been out to get Penn State as well.
                              Snark? PSU is clearly guilty of offering conspiracy theories about officials out to get them. IMO, M isn't nearly as bad historically; OTH, M's complaining about poor refereeing in the BT is on the rise since Harbaugh became HC. At least that is how I see it although I've not counted up the number of refereeing related complaints compared to other P5 teams.

                              My position is that ALL teams in the BT are experiencing less than routinely well officiated games. I have nothing to back that assertion up other than my own eyeball that has observed about as many games outside the BT as inside it.
                              On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."

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                              • Originally posted by froot loops View Post
                                The refs get one crack at it at full speed and not always with best angle.

                                The more outrageous part of reffing is when the booth overturns calls badly or on less than indisputable evidence.
                                The job is no doubt a difficult one. And, a very important one. Which is why it should be a proper job, with proper pay and proper expectations.

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