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Michigan Football, Team 139, 2018 Season

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  • #31
    Originally posted by froot loops View Post
    Harbaugh struck gold with Kaepernick but it must be noted that if you ran the read option in the NFL back then it was kryptonite to NFL defensive coordinators, the NFL was not prepared. They really didn't run it that much and then used it a ton on the Packers in the playoffs. Nowadays it is really common in both college and pros and you won't have the surprise aspect to help you.
    Very true.

    Here's the thing. At the college level, there's no denying using the QB position as another set of legs and as a run threat, makes defending all 11 guys a lot harder than just 10 with a statuesque pro-style QB back there. At least per talent .... heh.

    I don't think it's JH's attempt to bring some new offensive wrinkle to the table but rather give M's offense more variability that opposing DCs have to think about.
    On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


    • #32
      This just posted up at Touch the Banner. The guy that owns this blog posts as umbig.11 at mgoboards. He's the guy that I mentioned earlier today that seems to have some kind of inside connection though he never discusses it, suggests he has it or says anything that might reveal he actually has a friend inside Schembechler Hall that hears stuff.

      It's a seemingly realistic rundown of what he thinks the 2018 coaching staff will look like. Standard disclaimer ..... he denies any insider info on assistant coaching searches.
      On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


      • #33
        fuck any analysis of 2107. It doesn't matter anymore

        lmao You said it Stan, im tapping out. I might be back next year (?) but doubt it. Michigan has finally turned into the Detroit Lions


        • #34
          If things don't finally make sense, then, yes. From late Lloyd to RR to Hoke to now, the only constant is the losing. There's been huge diversity in how they've done it though, which is alarming and Lionsish.


          • #35
            Unless he's changed his name, the Touch the Banner guy posts as Thunder at MGoBlog. I believe he coaches at the high school level.
            I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.


            • #36
              I don't think so, Rocky. Thunder is another guy who IS a HS coach, makes excellent, analytic posts at mgoboard and posted a comment under the article I linked to. Two different guys, I think.
              On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


              • #37
                Thunder = Magnus = Touch the Banner. Look at this page.


                It says posts by Thunder. Look in the url. It says author/magnus.

                I've been stealing pictures from him for a long time. I also read his posts at MGO where he refers to stuff he just put up at TTB.
                I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.


                • #38
                  Hmmmm ..... guess you're right. I know that posters frequently use different pseudonyms. I must have confused umbig.11 with him. Now I wonder who umbig.11 is.

                  Anyway, Good catch. Thanks for that.
                  On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


                  • #39
                    The Greg Roman to M thing is probably premature. It's got a shit-ton of run on multiple message boards but no site with cred is suggesting this thing is going to happen. With that in mind, this is a good post about Greg Roam at SF. The comments section is equally eyeopening even though most of the posts are just fans posting stuff. Some of the stuff is very good though.

                    Cliff Notes:

                    Roman was part of a triumvirate of offensive coordinators at every place he worked with JH including SF. The multiple coordinator thing is Harbaugh's MO. In fact, it seems this is a thing all around the NFL and is finding it's way into CFB. The reason is the complexity of play calling inside and outside the redzone is different as defenses become more complex.

                    At the very least, you'll see passing game and running game coordinators in most offensive coaching staffs either in name and on the practice field or actually making the play calls in-game.

                    Roman has a really good track record when working with Harbaugh but it's relative. His greatest success was with JH in SF. The post I've linked to states Roman was considered "the guy" at SF so, he took the heat when fans complained about his plodding, old school offense - it was something like #8 in the NFL in 2013 and in the bottom quarter in 2014. When SF played Seattle and Russell Wilson, fans would bitch, "why can't SF run an offense like that."

                    Roman did use Kap in a pistol O and SF fans loved it but it was hit and miss. SF fans didn't like the changing back and forth between manball and WCO out of the pistol.

                    Roman was famous for building a lead and going conservative. SF fans hated it.

                    He's a very Debordian hire it seems.

                    Roman went to the Bills as OC when JH left SF to come to M and made a bundle in that deal. He was fired after a loss to the Jets in 2015 and most think he got a bum rap. He actually had pretty good numbers there.

                    He's now with the Ravens as TEs coach.

                    Here's some of my thoughts:

                    We better get used to the OC by committee thing. It's the way Harbaugh does it every where he's been after SDS and most NFL coaches do things. Does it make it too complicated for CFB players? I think it does. JH would obviously disagree with me and all those in my camp.

                    Roman is closely aligned with JH and manball. If you read the post I've linked to, you'll see Harbaugh's footprint all over whatever he and Roman ran at all their stints together. Seems to me that it's Harbaugh doing the things that frustrate us fans the most.

                    Frankly, I don't care what he does as long as it brings championships. The more I read stuff about the coaching changes though, I'm dubious about him being able to do that based on what I've seen the last three seasons. We could see a revised and invigorated M offense offense or nothing of the sort and just a repeat of the way its been. I'm stifling my enthusiasm of earlier today.

                    With the rumors of a house cleaning on the offensive coaching side of the ball, it's clear to me that Harbaugh is going to hire someone who he's comfortable with. he's not going to out and bring in some new guy who's done well at some FBS team. That sounds appealing to some. It's not going to happen.

                    On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


                    • #40
                      Interesting about the multiple playcallers thing. If that's the trend then that's the trend.


                      • #41
                        I had a front seat to watching play calling at the high school level and I imagine every staff in America play calls by committee to some extent. Your phone system has an offensive side and a defensive side with the head coach being able to flip back and forth. I'm sure it can be more complex but instead of calling it by committee it is more collaborative. You have to remember there are 3 different angles in which you have to watch the game: on the sidelines, in the press box and on the field. The sidelines is the worst angle, you can't see shit. Generally one guy calls the plays, the OC or the HC but other people chime in with suggestions.


                        • #42
                          This is highlight video of Shea Patterson at Ol' Miss. From the snap, start counting 1-potato, 2-potato ........

                          (1) Patterson has very good awareness of a rush threat. The Ol' Miss pass-pro isn't much better than M's in fact maybe a little worse.

                          (2) He makes his reads and decides what he's going to do in under 4s, usually around 3s.

                          (3) It appears he has a ton of confidence with his throws into tight windows and looks like he has great chemistry with his receivers.

                          (4) Accurate long ball and short game.

                          (5) quick release ...... this may be the best part of his game in that he's getting the ball out of his hands most of the time before there is any rush threat (see #1 above). The passing schemes look like they are set up to do quick reads of one, maybe two receivers (although there may be 3-4 in the play, these are all decoys).

                          My major complaint with Hamilton's pass plays is that they take wayyyy too long to develop. In the Ol' Miss passing O, the hot receivers (maybe just one or maybe two) are well into their routes by the 2 count, fully into them at the 3 count and Patterson hits them at just over 3-3.5s after the snap.

                          Deep routes are all flys and seem to planned to be about 40-50y deep - a distance a 4.3s WR can hit at the 2-2.5 count. Some of the routes are covered but that doesn't make any difference because Patterson is really good at leading both the fly routes and shorter crossing routes perfectly.

                          Hopefully Pep is gone. If Enos is the passing game coordinator and QB coach, I'd like to see him develop the kind of passing schemes that optimize quick reads and a quick release. Screw the more difficult WCO reads where the QB has to read up to 4 receivers and how the D plays them, checking down as appropriate ..... that's what it looked like JH/Pep had Peters doing. Maybe he was OK at doing that but most defenses are going to be in the face of the QB after the 3.5s mark which is probably the minimum it takes for a CFB QB to make these reads.

                          Tom Brady runs a WCO passing scheme; he makes his reads in under 3s, is working with three to five receivers (including a TE) and has decided where to throw the ball in that time frame. Peters isn't at that level. His margin for error is small and he's not that accurate. Sure, Peters can step up into the pocket ..... when there was a pocket to step up into.......on his 3rd or 4th check down but I don't see quality throws when Peters does that. It's not buying him anything. Why bother.

                          Patterson doesn't tend to step up. He's either made his hot read and thrown it or made his hot read + one check down, thrown it there or bailed. Once he's bailed he's really good at keeping his eyes down field and making a play. Some of them into coverage I'd be pissed about if he threw them into that coverage. Maybe he can get away with that in the SEC; not in the BIG.

                          Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; January 4th, 2018, 12:15 PM.
                          On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): We'd rather be about it than talk about it."


                          • #43

                            I was just getting to the point that I could deal with the results of the 2017 season. I had somehow rationalized all of the obvious shortcomings we saw in this program to ultimately, with the HUGE exception of Michigan State, we won the games we were supposed to win. We knew that winning at Penn State and at Wisconsin were damn tough things to do. Well...the Buckeyes...I think we all won't believe it until we see it anyways. So four matter how they came...was where most people expected us to be. In my heart of hearts, 3-4 losses was where I expected us.
                            Never mind the way we lost. Never mind the hope and prayer that one day, somehow, maybe, this team and this staff and this program would win a game it wasn't supposed to win. It would actually upset somebody...other than its fans. It would actually play above their capabilities for one damn game. I mean, every other program seems to do it at least once in a decade. We did it Lloyd's last game maybe against Florida...that was January 1st of 2008. We did it against Wisconsin at home Rich Rod's first season in 2008. Can anybody name any others??? I digress.
                            Suddenly, then the meaningless runner-up of all January First bowl games happens. That...MESS...happens...and I'm madder than maybe I've ever been. I'm more disgusted at the shape of this program than I've ever been. I'm left with a football hangover that eclipses anything the roughest New Years Eve bender could ever throw at me. Do my current feelings have mostly to do with the hope and hype we've been sold over the last three years? Well of course it does. Brady Hoke may have been overmatched, but his offense was better than this...and his SDSU pedigree wasn't exactly Stanford, NFC Championships, and a Super Bowl. Let me make this abundantly clear in my humble opinion, the emperor wears no clothes. It's very clear Harbs isn't the immediate savior of Michigan Football...and maybe that wasn't fair to him. It's VERY clear that he is no football genius or prodigy...and maybe that wasn't fair to him to start. However, at the end of year three, I didn't expect in a million years to be outcoached by Muschamp. I didn't expect that headlines about our losses would include words like "Comedic" or "Epic Collapse". I did not expect that in a million years at the end of Year 3 of Jim Harbaugh, that Harbaugh and Michigan Football would be national jokes and punchlines. I didn't expect that we'd have kickers...fricking kicking...grabbing their crotch and taunting other teams. I didn't expect QBs that lob grenades when they need one damn continue a drive. No....I did not expect that. I thought Jim Harbaugh would lead us from wandering in the desert....not throw me a pail and tell me to make a sand castle with it.
                            Now let me say this. Let me make sure to make this point so that everyone understands. Jim Harbaugh is Michigan's Coach. Jim Harbaugh is still the coach for Michigan. Jim Harbaugh is in resume the greatest coach we could have ever hired three years ago. I am still 100% behind Jim Harbaugh. I am just not convinced at this I was even a year ago...that Jim Harbaugh is going to work out. I will also say this. No coach in America needs to evaluate themselves, their staff, their image, and everything they do more than Jim Harbaugh does between now and September if he wants to succeed in Ann Arbor.
                            For the small, very small, minority that wants to see a change now, I understand your frustration. I understand your disappointment. Nobody is a bigger believer than me that the end of year 3 is a huge barometer in the direction of the program, but the time for that conclusion has not yet come. Not this year. Not next year. I don't have any more patience than you do for Michigan Football and this staff to succeed...but I also feared this was at least a five-year journey to start. So stay in your seats, keep your heart, hands, and head in the car at all times, and wait until this ride comes to a complete stop.
                            That being said...
                            Okay Coach, your play. You say it hasn't been good enough. You say you have to work harder. You say that it's on you. So get to work. Go get it done. Check your ego...check all that you think you know...and you better be ready to make some hard decisions...hard decisions about your buddies...hard decisions about your kid. If you can't do that, then your tenure in Ann Arbor is already a failure. It is all on you. We can all point to coaches and coordinators, but it is all on you Coach.
                            I can not still believe what we saw in that Outback Bowl. I'm still just stunned at the epic collapse. I'm still stunned how in that one little meaningless game we could see a microcosm of everything wrong with the entire season. It is still amazing to me that every nightmare scenario of the last two years could manifest itself in one half of football.
                            The collapse was complete. The collapse was total. The collapse was devastating. For the rest of our conference and the enemies that Harbaugh has made along the way, the collapse was the highest form of comedy. Everything wrong with this staff and this program was on display in sixty short minutes of gametime. I'm not blaming any player. I put the blame squarely on the coaches...all of them. Offense...God knows the offense...special teams...and yes, oh yes defense.
                            During the Outback Bowl, and over the course of the season, I've called Hamilton and Drevno every synonym for incompetent in the book. If the book was bigger, I'd call them those too. During the game, I weaved a tapestry of profanity that is hanging somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean. I mean, like many of you, I lost my damn mind watching that game. I don't know that I've found my damn mind yet.
                            Just let this soak in. This offense and this passing game, in Year 3 of Jim Harbaugh...offensive genius and quarterback historically bad. With two $1m coordinators on offense, this offense was as bad as it could ever bad as its ever been in the modern era. This team passed for nine touchdowns. Rich Rod's first year, with Threet and Sheridan and the worst QB situation that could ever be imagined, we passed for 12 TDs. This team had the fewest passing TDs in over 40 years....since Bo Schembechler had a freshman quarterback named Leach that was running an option offense. Wow. Our wide receivers, for the season, scored three touchdowns. Three. How many did Braylon have against Sparty in the 2004 OT game??? That's not youth. That's pure incompetence by a staff. That is unbelievable.
                            How any coach associated with such an offense could even be allowed to get on the team plane home, I have no idea. If all of these plays are going through Harbaugh, that truly scares the hell out of me.
                            Now the defense. Now the genius that I keep hearing Don Brown is. Ok. Sure. Great defense right? No, good defense. Not a dependable defense. This seems to be where most Michigan Fans disagree...and yes I see both sides. Great defense against Rutgers. How is that defense against the big boys? In the last two games against the Buckeyes and against an offense in South Carolina being coordinated by a grad assistant, we gave up leads of at least two touchdowns. This wasn't OSU 2016 throwing pick sixes and giving the D a 10-yard field. This was long drives and big plays down the field following our mistakes. We had leads against Iowa last year, OSU last year, Florida State last year, Wisconsin this year, OSU this year, South Carolina this year. We had leads and we gave up those leads. I don't want to hear about how bad the offense is...I just don't care and don't want to hear it. It takes three plays for a defense to get off the field. Three. Good defense. Yes. Great defense? A 97 defense? A 1980 defense? Even a 2006 defense? A defense we know we can count on??? Sorry, not by a long shot. Brown is a good coordinator. Brown is not a great coordinator... There is plenty...plenty...for that defense to work on. Do we need the changes on this side of the ball that we need on offense? Of course not. Just don't pretend that we are perfect on defense. In the Outback Bowl, that defense pissed me off every bit as bad as that anemic offense. They were great until they weren't...then they were awful.
                            The moral of the story to me is simple. Shut up Jim Harbaugh. Shut up Michigan Football. Shut up and win. I'm out. I'm throwing my hands in the air. I don't want to hear about any of it. I'm unplugging until Notre Dame in September. I don't want to hear about the changes. I don't want to hear about the coaching carousel...other than just to know for my own mental health that its happening. I don't want to hear about spring break trips....gear for the year...recruiting antics...celebrity visits...coaching cameos on Judge videos...none of it. None. Because none of it has resulted in victories against Ohio State...none of it has resulted in trips to Indianapolis...none of it has resulted in Big Ten Championships....none of it. All of it, at this point, is just a reason for the rest of the conference and country to laugh.
                            God bless you Michigan fans. God bless you and keep you and give you strength because we sure don't have a lot to cheer about right now. The biggest win this football program has had in the last decade has been the hiring of Jim Harbaugh...and in Year 3, that's been our biggest torment.


                            • #44
                              Per Brandon Justice : University of Cincinnati DL coach Al Washington is coming to Michigan to coach RB's.
                              I'll let you ban hate speech when you let me define hate speech.


                              • #45
                                Shea will be a gamechanger. Tons of upside. Needs some good coaching and an o-line, but you will be much better next year.
                                "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln