DetroitLionsForum.com
Please support the forum by using this link to shop with our sponsor:

Go Back   DetroitLionsForum.com > Sports Discussion Forums > Detroit Lions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 16th, 2017, 05:59 PM   #5621
fontes91
Senior Member
 
fontes91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 1,961
Wierd situations......like leading up to an all-time great running back faxing in his termination. I know, I know.....that was a different era and there wasn't even a franchise tag there. The nfl has a bad union.

In the nba players seem to have much more control.
fontes91 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 06:57 PM   #5622
Malto Marko
Senior Member
 
Malto Marko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hockeytown USA
Posts: 28,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcfwtf View Post
I don't believe there is a limit. But the team would have to pay the player 20% more each year.

I don't believe it's really been tested because the player normally caves in. But it doesn't seem to me that it would be wise for a team to keep doing that after the first couple of years. along with the player being unhappy that his movement is being infringed upon.

I have stated in the past that Stafford is young enough that if he wanted to leave he probably could "test" the Lions out on this.
I believe you are correct on all counts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LionsFanInJapan View Post
Nothing that Stafford has ever done or said would lead me to believe he doesn't want to stay in Detroit.
In Agent Speak: He has a family to take care of now.
__________________
I long for a Lions team that is consistantly competitive.
Malto Marko is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #5623
froot loops
Senior Member
 
froot loops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'm great
Posts: 31,358
The NBA does have a stronger union but their setup has issues, the top star players are underpaid relative to their production in comparison to the lid tier guys. Lebron should have been making 50 million a year at minimum. Nobody is going to cry for him, he makes a ton of money but every artificial system is going to have issues.
froot loops is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 07:07 PM   #5624
froot loops
Senior Member
 
froot loops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'm great
Posts: 31,358
I don't really buy into Calvin's side of the story after the fact. I believe he was ready to retire in 2015 because all his injuries. I think of they were a consistent contender, he may have eaked out another year or two but he was ready. I believe the seperation from the Lions was more acrimonious than was it was portrayed and that is shading his comments.

Last edited by froot loops; July 16th, 2017 at 09:00 PM.
froot loops is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 07:46 PM   #5625
chemiclord
Senior Member
 
chemiclord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 29,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by froot loops View Post
I don't really buy into Calvin's side of the story after the fact. I believe he was ready to retire in 2015 because all his injuries. I think of they were a consistent contender, he may have eaked out another year or two but he was ready. I believe the seperate on from the Lions was more acrimonious than was it was portrayed and that is shading his comments.
I would concur... in the sense that he is making a bigger deal out of the state of the team than it was at the time of his retirement. I DO believe the accumulated damage over his career was the straw that broke the camel's back. But at the same time, had the Lions come off a great season where they just fell short, he would have sucked it up for at least one more go.

That the Lions were going into rebuilding mode really only made the choice to walk away easier. I'm dubious he had more than cursory discussions into a trade or release.
__________________
Sent by my LG-H900 nobody fucking cares using fuck off Tapatalk
chemiclord is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #5626
Panoptes
Senior Member
 
Panoptes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 44,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by fontes91 View Post
If the Lions or any team kept a player blocked from free agency that would have to be addressed in thr next cba. Stafford should have a chance to leave if he wants.

I was thinking a team could only tag a player twice. Guess I was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaadam4 View Post
I believe thats correct
That's the way I remember it and why I said Stafford could get out if HE wants out and its not just about (Lions stoopid) money to him. He would still break the bank in 2 years.
__________________
SHOW me. Don't TELL me. Still waiting....
Play stupid games ...Win stupid prizes

Last edited by Panoptes; July 16th, 2017 at 08:20 PM.
Panoptes is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #5627
CGVT
Senior Member
 
CGVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Posts: 29,918
The employer is the NFL. Nobody is stopping a player from being employed.
__________________
Clouds are clouds. Cows are cows. The Lions are the Lions .-Andrew Heller-
CGVT is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 09:09 PM   #5628
froot loops
Senior Member
 
froot loops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'm great
Posts: 31,358
Kirk Cousins is looking at a third staight franchise tag next year if they don't come to a multi year agreement shortly. I don't think there is a stated limit on how many times it can be used, but there have been certain players who have worked out clauses to make it so they can't be tagged a 3rd time.
froot loops is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 09:39 PM   #5629
CGVT
Senior Member
 
CGVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Posts: 29,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by froot loops View Post
Kirk Cousins is looking at a third staight franchise tag next year if they don't come to a multi year agreement shortly. I don't think there is a stated limit on how many times it can be used, but there have been certain players who have worked out clauses to make it so they can't be tagged a 3rd time.
From PFT:

1. The formula has changed.

Under prior labor deals, the non-exclusive franchise tag was determined by calculating the average of the five highest-paid players at each position from the prior year. Under the 2011 CBA, the franchise tenders come from a more complex procedure.

Under Article 10, Section 2 of the CBA, the number is based on the five-year average cap percentage for the tag at each position.

So itís no longer driven by what players at the same position made in the prior season, but by the average cap percentage consumed by the franchise tender over five years. Then, that percentage will be applied to the 2013 salary cap to determine the franchise tender at each position.

Already confused? Weíve got nine more.

2. In some cases, the formula doesnít matter.

A player getting the non-exclusive franchise tag is entitled to the greater of the formula clumsily explained above (and that was the fourth draft of it) or 120 percent of the playerís cap number from the prior year.

Thatís why, for example, the franchise tender for Dolphins tackle Jake Long would be much higher than the franchise tender for an offensive lineman. Long made enough in 2012 to result in a 20-percent raise, trumping the franchise tender.

This dynamic often applies to players who were taken high in the draft before the implementation of the rookie wage scale. As rookie contracts expire under the new labor deal, franchise tenders for many of them will be lower.

3. The transition tag has become meaningless.

Teams can use, in any given year, one franchise tag or one transition tag. The transition tag gives a team the right to match an offer sheet, but no compensation if the team chooses not to match.

At one point, the transition playerís contract was not fully guaranteed once it was accepted by the player. It now is.

The fact that the guaranteed pay on the one-year transition tender isnít much less than the guaranteed pay for the one-year franchise tender, coupled with the lack of draft-pick compensation, has made the transition tag largely meaningless.

4. Franchise tags can be withdrawn.

The amount of the franchise tender becomes fully guaranteed once the player signs it. Since signing the franchise tender puts the player under contract, requiring him to show up to all mandatory offseason activities and training camp, some players choose to wait deep into the preseason before inking the offer.

The risk is that the franchise tag can be withdrawn, at any time, before it has been signed.

It doesnít happen often, but itís not unprecedented. Especially in Philly. In 2002, the Eagles pulled the franchise tag from linebacker Jeremiah Trotter in early April. Three years later, the Eagles removed the franchise tag from defensive tackle Corey Simon in late August.

The move immediately converts the player to an unrestricted free agent. But if it comes after the big money has been spent, the player will have a hard time getting the pay day he would have realized on the first day of free agency.

5. Franchise tender is guaranteed, with one exception.

Once a player signs the franchise tag, the one-year salary becomes fully guaranteed. But thereís a little-known exception.

Under Article 10, Section 2(c) of the CBA, the contract can be terminated if the player fails ďto establish or maintain his excellent physical condition.Ē

Any effort to do so would result in a review of the situation by a neutral physician and, eventually and inevitably, arbitration. Still, the franchise tender technically isnít fully and completely guaranteed.

6. No non-quarterback will be tagged more than twice.

Former Seahawks tackle Walter Jones once spent three straight years under the franchise tag, pocketing a total of $20 million and then signing a long-term deal that paid him $20 million more guaranteed, back when $20 million was a very big deal for NFL purposes.

Jones rolled the dice on bearing the injury risk for the three franchise years, and he won. Most players prefer the certainty of a long-term deal.

Thatís why the 2006 CBA changed the formula to pay a non-quarterback the quarterback franchise tender if heís tagged a third time.

Quarterbacks are protected, too. In the third year of the franchise tag, they get at least a 44-percent raise over their cap number in the prior year.

7. Arguably, no player can be tagged more than three times.

Last yearís grievance filed by Saints quarterback Drew Brees established that, if a player is tagged once by two different teams, it counts as being tagged twice. Which would have entitled him to a 44-percent raise in 2013, if he had played under the franchise tag last year for the Saints. (He was tagged in 2005 by the Chargers.)

Based on the language of the CBA, thereís an argument to be made that no player may ever be tagged more than three times during the course of his career.

Of course, tagging a player a fourth time would entail paying out a second 44-percent raise one year after paying out an initial 44-percent raise. Which would make it highly unlikely that any team would ever want to use the tag more than three times.

8. Itís cheap to tag kickers and punters.

Thereís a belief among some fans that the use of the franchise tag meant that the player was a ďfranchise player.Ē And so, when a team uses the tag on a punter or a kicker, fans are confused and/or amused.

But the formula for calculating franchise tenders has made it cheaper to use the tag than to sign the player to a market-value deal.

At $2.9 million for 2013, more kickers and punters could find themselves being regarded as ďfranchise players.Ē

9. Long-term deals can be negotiated, through July 15.

Previously, the window for a team signing its franchise player to a long-term deal closed not long after the free-agency period started and then opened again on July 15. Now, the window remains open until July 15.

After July 15, the franchise player can sign only a one-year deal with his current team. It can be for more than the franchise tender, and it can include other terms, like playing-time or performance triggers that would prevent the tag from being used again.

But the duration can be no more than one year.

10. One offer sheet may be signed, through July 15.

For a player carrying the non-exclusive tag, he can negotiate with any other team. Ultimately, one offer sheet can be signed.

Once itís signed, the situation simplifies considerably. The playerís current team will match the offer and keep him, or the playerís team will not match the offer and collect a pair of first-round picks from the new team.

The two first-round picks given as compensation must be the teamís original picks ó not any picks obtained via trade or otherwise.

And thereís a loophole which, eventually, a desperate coach or G.M. may use. The period for signing franchise players to offer sheets lingers beyond the current yearís draft. Thus, for example, a team that wants to sign quarterback Joe Flacco (if the Ravens use the non-exclusive tag) could, in theory, wait until after the draft, sign Flacco to a front-loaded offer sheet that the Ravens canít match, and then surrender not the 2013 and 2014 first-round picks, but the first-round picks for 2014 and 2015.

Thereís nothing in the labor deal that prevents this from happening until July 15, after which date the player can sign only a one-year deal with his current team.
__________________
Clouds are clouds. Cows are cows. The Lions are the Lions .-Andrew Heller-
CGVT is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 09:42 PM   #5630
jaadam4
Senior Member
 
jaadam4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Africa!!
Posts: 26,599
Id almost rather read all of dwt's posts than have to read the collective bargaining agreement
__________________
F#*K OHIO!!!
jaadam4 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 16th, 2017, 09:45 PM   #5631
CGVT
Senior Member
 
CGVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Posts: 29,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaadam4 View Post
Id almost rather read all of dwt's posts than have to read the collective bargaining agreement
Ha! This part answers the three times question

Arguably, no player can be tagged more than three times.

Last yearís grievance filed by Saints quarterback Drew Brees established that, if a player is tagged once by two different teams, it counts as being tagged twice. Which would have entitled him to a 44-percent raise in 2013, if he had played under the franchise tag last year for the Saints. (He was tagged in 2005 by the Chargers.)

Based on the language of the CBA, thereís an argument to be made that no player may ever be tagged more than three times during the course of his career.

Of course, tagging a player a fourth time would entail paying out a second 44-percent raise one year after paying out an initial 44-percent raise. Which would make it highly unlikely that any team would ever want to use the tag more than three times.
__________________
Clouds are clouds. Cows are cows. The Lions are the Lions .-Andrew Heller-
CGVT is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 12:02 AM   #5632
LionsFanInJapan
Senior Member
 
LionsFanInJapan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kumamoto, Japan
Posts: 9,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malto Marko View Post
In Agent Speak: He has a family to take care of now.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUeihuyFl_r/

I think they're squarely in the Lions camp.
__________________
2015 AAL - Ezekiel "Double Digit Sacks" Ansah.
LionsFanInJapan is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 05:31 AM   #5633
dwt1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemiclord View Post
Can you say with confidence that the Lions aren't petty enough to keep Stafford from playing?

I'm not. They've always been, "You play for us, or you play for no one." It's why Suh's case was so exceptional... it was the one time I can think of that a franchise player wound up forcing the Lions' hand.
Petty? It's a fucking business, ran like a business. You act like Detroit is the only team to hold players to their contracts.
__________________
Vote for Freedom not for Free Things

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
dwt1 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 05:33 AM   #5634
dwt1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionsFanInJapan View Post
Nothing that Stafford has ever done or said would lead me to believe he doesn't want to stay in Detroit.
Exactly, very few fan bases would idolize this level of mediocrity - he's got it made here.
__________________
Vote for Freedom not for Free Things

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
dwt1 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 05:34 AM   #5635
dwt1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaadam4 View Post
Id almost rather read all of dwt's posts than have to read the collective bargaining agreement
No you wouldn't, you can't stand to be that enlightened, ignorance is bliss.
__________________
Vote for Freedom not for Free Things

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
dwt1 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 09:51 AM   #5636
Marko69
Senior Member
 
Marko69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere between here and there
Posts: 9,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwt1 View Post
Exactly, very few fan bases would idolize this level of mediocrity - he's got it made here.
DWT, stop it, man. You are turning the Lions News thread into the laugh ass off thread!
__________________
<<<< DUSTY!
2017 AFL CHAMPIONS: RICHMOND TIGERS
Marko69 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #5637
jaadam4
Senior Member
 
jaadam4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Africa!!
Posts: 26,599
Theeeeeee... wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round....
__________________
F#*K OHIO!!!
jaadam4 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #5638
UKBB
Senior Member
 
UKBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionsFanInJapan View Post
Nothing that Stafford has ever done or said would lead me to believe he doesn't want to stay in Detroit.
Right.
__________________
I'll bet that Zach Zenner hates Cancer too.
UKBB is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 11:50 AM   #5639
UKBB
Senior Member
 
UKBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaadam4 View Post
Theeeeeee... wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round....
... all through this thread...
__________________
I'll bet that Zach Zenner hates Cancer too.
UKBB is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old July 17th, 2017, 12:35 PM   #5640
Frank Van Dusen
100 Miles Away
 
Frank Van Dusen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I live vicariously through myself
Posts: 13,952
Rod to the rescue!

__________________
Everytime a Viking gets drop kicked, an angel gets its wings
Frank Van Dusen is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owners. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © DetroitLionsForum.com.
This site is a non-profit fan site and IS NOT affiliated with the NFL or Detroit Lions or any other sports team. Please visit the official site of the Detroit Lions for official information on the Lions.