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  • I've said this many times but this is why this is such a great forum. Thanks to talent, Stan and Geezer to credibly adding to the discussion.

    To me, once it's been explained in terms I can digest and understand, deciding on the legality of the Immigration EO is a simple matter...... and I don't want to imply that language and the concept of "between the four corners" is not vitally important to how the Courts rule on the matter before them.

    As a lay person, I'm in agreement with talent ..... the EO is bad but it should be allowed to stand. I also understand the subtleties in ruling based on the law versus the Scalia approach of originalism. I can see why Geezer isn't as Sanguine as talent is in predicting the outcome.

    Anyway, the interesting dialogue on the facts here, is a welcome relief from the theater coming from both sides, a lot of it just strikingly inaccurate and misleading ..... and that's what bothers me.

    The bigger picture is illuminated this way ......My gut tells me DJT - and that gut feeling is based on the crazy shit floating around out there about Trump since he took office - has no understanding of this particular EO and its implications to even the minimal depth of it that we've gotten to here.

    Seems he lacks both the intelligence and the patience to want to deliberate and consider matters. He just wants to act and any mess he makes by that action, he'll worry about that later.

    Like the entirety of the Bush crowd, to a lesser degree HW, those administrations aggravated the shit out of me by failing to understand that the people they are trying to persuade to their view of things are capable of weighing the information available, taking a position, and being comfortable with it.

    Instead, in a calculated way, because those administrations were not made up of stupid people - they dumbed everything down and frequently misrepresented facts in intentional ways so that that their audience would see their preferred course of action favorably.

    My concern is that the Trump administration isn't doing any of this in some well thought out way to achieve an end. DJT does not seem to me to be an intellectual or a thinker. None of the people around him have impressed me as particularly intellectual - save maybe SECDEF Mattis. So, you have this gaggle of actors making decisions, formulating policy and interacting with their international peers without regard to consequences and in ways that potentially put the US at risk.
    There is such a thing as redemption. Jim Harbaugh is redeemed at the expense of a fading Ryan Day and OSU. M wins back to back games v. OSU first time since 1999-2000​ - John Cooper was fired in 2000!!!

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    • My gut tells me DJT - and that gut feeling is based on the crazy shit floating around out there about Trump since he took office - has no understanding of this particular EO and its implications to even the minimal depth of it that we've gotten to here.
      I firmly believe that the EO is intended as a symbolic gesture. I firmly believe folks in his administration thought they could do it in a way that wasn't a "muslim ban" on its face. I firmly believe DJT had zero clue or interest in the technicalities -- he wanted to sign something "banning terrorists" or something.

      I don't particularly enjoy this issue because I don't like the EO and I don't like the order striking it down.
      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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      • Trump will continue running into trouble again and again so long as he lets the 'politicos' around him (Bannon, Miller, Kelly, & Flynn to a lesser extent) have more power than the 'professionals' (Mattis, Tillerson, Kelly, etc.)

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        • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post

          Seems he lacks both the intelligence and the patience to want to deliberate and consider matters. He just wants to act and any mess he makes by that action, he'll worry about that later.
          This has been my concern since the day he won the GOP nomination, and really, before. The way he acts and speaks is considered by many to be blunt and forthright, but IMO is actually indicative of a person who has cruised through life without facing proportional consequences to decisions. As you state, he acts and others deal with the outcomes...exactly like we are seeing today.

          He is largely insulated, but that’s going to change; he hasn’t got a fraction of the control over the environment he’s running in now, compared to his days shouldering around the real estate world. IDK that he is even remotely equipped to handle it, intellectually, or emotionally. The evidence to date suggests a resounding "No".

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          • Originally posted by iam416 View Post
            I firmly believe that the EO is intended as a symbolic gesture. I firmly believe folks in his administration thought they could do it in a way that wasn't a "muslim ban" on its face. I firmly believe DJT had zero clue or interest in the technicalities -- he wanted to sign something "banning terrorists" or something.

            I don't particularly enjoy this issue because I don't like the EO and I don't like the order striking it down.
            I agree, Trump said he was going to do something about immigration and ban them from certain countries, so he threw some shit against the wall without any thought about the impact or execution. And not having any true governmental operatives in the mix helped add to the chaos.

            The thing is, if he had any sort of tact, he could make a decent, balanced argument (as others have) of why this was done. But he a such a hyperbolic blowhard that everything is "thousands of terrorists are streaming into our country", "EXTREME VETTING", just straight up fear-mongering.

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            • Well, if he'd ran this through some semblance of process with the involved agencies and counsel it would have taken longer, but he probably would have walked this into the end zone. Instead he's thrown a couple incomplete passes from the 2 yardline.

              #footballmetaphors

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              • Fuck no ..... he just threw an interception that is under official review.
                There is such a thing as redemption. Jim Harbaugh is redeemed at the expense of a fading Ryan Day and OSU. M wins back to back games v. OSU first time since 1999-2000​ - John Cooper was fired in 2000!!!

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                • TARGETING

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                  • Neil Gorsuch calls Trump's "so-called judge" comment disheartening and demoralizing

                    Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch told a US senator Wednesday that President Donald Trump’s tweets about the judiciary are “demoralizing” and “disheartening.”

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                    • I am heartened and moralized.

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                      • Good for you Neil.

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                        • Crying Neil Goresuch is wrong! Not demoralizing or disheartening! This so-called nominee is dangerous! Sad!
                          "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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                          • Seems to me he's now an ``Trump-called nominee'', but let's let the lawyers intrepret for us.

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                            • Lying hack is spreading fake news! Sad!
                              "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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                              • I think is is both arrogant and a form of virtue signaling to question Trump's intelligence.

                                Look at the scoreboard, both in his career in the private sector and in his brief public career.
                                Last edited by Da Geezer; February 9, 2017, 10:31 AM.

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