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Old October 10th, 2017, 01:53 PM   #981
WM Wolverine
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'13 OL class (rs-seniors in '17): Patrick Kugler, Kyle Bosch (transfer, pre-Harbaugh), David Dawson (no redshirt), Chris Fox (injury, medical scholarship), Logan Tuley-Tillman (transfer, off the field issues), Dan Samuelson (transfer)...
'14 OL class: Mason Cole, & Juwan Bushell-Beatty,
'15 OL class: Grant Newsome (injury), Jon Runyan Jr., & Nolan Ulizio...

2013 recruiting class is only here to explain the low numbers for the '14 recruiting class. This class ('13) did affect the OL performance on the field in '15/'16. Just two OL in a class ('14) is usually a mistake. Mistake would've been lessened if the '13 OL or '15 OL classes panned out; they didn't or even come close... 2015 was Hoke's class that Harbaugh needed to clean-up but wasn't able to...

One injury shouldn't be so devastating but he was needed as the previous class was just two members. This class was possibly hurt in both quality and in numbers by the Hoke->Harbaugh transition, Too early to say about the '16 recruiting class (Onwenu, Bredeson, Spanellis) but again, short on numbers considering the previous two classes. This class was took a surprise loss when Devery Hamilton a week or less before signing day switched his commitment to Stanford. Spanellis was probably a plan B/C type that they took after missing on a few OL they were in on but signed elsewhere... This was the Erik Swenson class but I don't think the current coaching staff ever counted on him.

Yes, M should have signed a couple more scholarship OL from the '14 - '16 classes as the numbers come up well short of what you'd need. Injuries and the coaching transition both hurt M's numbers and talent level on the OL. The OL struggles this season is IMO largely the result of the misses in OL recruiting from '14 - '15 (less so '16).

M signed 6 OL in '17, including James Hudson who moved to OT from DL.

Last edited by WM Wolverine; October 10th, 2017 at 01:56 PM.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #982
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Perfect storm of injury, discipline issues, negative recruiting surprises. And it could be a few years before we're behind that. But that's not what's making the RBs fumble or the coaches to call pass plays at the worst time and not to use their running QB as a running threat.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 02:07 PM   #983
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Is O'Korn a "running QB"? He has some ability to improvise when under pressure but to actually call running plays for him?
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Old October 10th, 2017, 02:12 PM   #984
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Harbaugh had very little time to hold Hoke's disintegrating final class together. He has also missed on a few OTs that would have presumably helped. In contrast, Urban Meyer was able to recruit for OSU while Fickell was still coaching the team in their bowl game. Urban also had a 3 year head start on Harbaugh. Finally, we always hear about the talent that Hoke left Harbaugh, but the great majority of that talent was in last year's class.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WM Wolverine View Post
.......Coaching staff should be doing a much better job of covering up the obvious weaknesses and finding an offensive scheme that fits the players........
How do we know the staff is not already doing this to the best of their ability?

We both agree the OL and QB are both bad enough to wreck Harbaughffense. Are you advocating scheme changes to accommodate player weaknesses? Change the play calling?

Except for some minor quibbles I have with play calling, if the call makes it to the QB as the play caller intends it to, and we can't assume this is happening (communications?), but for the purposes of this discussion let's say it does, I don't have a problem with it.

What I see emerging is a debate among the coaches regarding blocking philosophies (blocking schemes if you will). Looking at one of M's stretch plays compared to those same plays v. Purdue, there's a difference. Most notably there were some good ones v. MSU where as they were stuffed v. Purdue.

Look at this play. This is a stretch play v. a 4-3 front. It isn't a zone stretch. If it was, you'd see Kugler block his assigned guy in front of him and then move to the second level within his zone. Watch Kugler (57) pull from his center position, get the depth he needs to cross behind the TE and tag a LB. The TE (17) seals the L DE and the WR (9) heads to the second level to tag a LB. Higdon get's 12y and a first down.


The point here is I'm thinking this is a scheme change. Frey is a zone heavy guy. Maybe there's changes afoot, maybe not. This is only one play but if we start to see this sort of schematic change on inside runs (we'll be able to see that in the UFR I'm thinking) then it would seem we might be going back to some of the blocking schemes from last season (Drevno).

My second point is that coaches appear to be doing what everyone is complaining about ..... i.e., not adjusting the scheme to what the payers do best. This kind of stuff is not some major change. It's little stuff, details. It was there v. MSU and if M had not turned the ball over 2X in the 1st half, scored a couple of TDs, I'm pretty sure we would have seen more of this.

Like I said, I'm anxious to see if this sort of scheme change will produce better outcomes in the run game v. IU.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 04:18 PM   #986
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Two things already noted above ..... (1) the OL and QB situation are enough to ruin Harbaughffense (2) an effort is ongoing to schematically change the run game ..... are affirmed by Brian in the UFR offense v. MSU. Just because I already saw both of these things does not make me proud of myself. It makes me sad.

M ran 14 power plays and 11 zone plays. the 11 zone plays got 25y. The 14 power plays got the rest. This does not mean that IZ/OZ are done. We'll likely see both although it's clear the OL is better at power (man, gap blocking) than it is at zone.

Obviously JOK's 3 INTs were bad and equally as bad as Isaac's and Mckeon's 1 fumble each but the true capital BAD in this offense was JOK with every thing else playing less significant rolls in the MSU shit fest.

You can read the whole UFR for a more detailed picture but what stands out to Brian that I'll pass along is that O'Korn does not see the field as the play unfolds and he's got a pocket that he should be staying in. Everything is fine as long as his first read is the right guy to throw to. He appears to refuse to stay in any decent pocket (and it was not all bad) and check down. Instead he breaks the pocket and ad-libs ...... which he is good at. He also missed some blitheringly wide open guys because of this. he apparently does not see them. Lastly he made some blitheringly bad throws ...... this is what got him the hook at Houston; this is why Speight was the starting QB.

Brian thinks O'Korn will be on a short leash v. IU and we'll see Peters if O'Korn falters. At this point I don't really care.

One final Cliff Notes comment from the UFR. Brian did have issues with the play calling and these came, of course, at crucial times. These were the two fade routes, in completions and into the end zone, that ended M's first scoring drive and throwing the ball during Hurricane Katrina. The run game had been half way productive even though MSU refused to abandon their quarters defense and blatantly kept two Ss within 7y of the LOS most of the game. I can see testing the middle zone against a defense like this when it's not pouring rain but that was dumb and resulted in 2 INTs.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #987
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Fade routes are low risk, low success rate passes. Tough pass for even good QBs.. I took away exactly the same as Brian from the last couple games, O'Korn tracks only his initial receiver then he'll try to make a play with his feet. He had some success improvising against Purdue, not as much against Sparty.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #988
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I don't put much blame on JOK. He was put in a really hard spot, the two fumbles. Don Brown getting burned early (just like he did vs Purdue) with the misdirection. Dantonio seen it, was going to call it, everyone predicted it - and... Michigan fell for it somehow?

Then holding on his nice TD pass, then more bad play calling. Forced to pass like crazy in a down pour and swirling winds. Has three critical drops in the game - Grant Perry, Khalid Hill and the late one from McDoom.


Zero turnovers from the defense to help. No way you can blame the qb in this one.

Last edited by WingsFan; October 12th, 2017 at 06:26 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:32 PM   #989
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You guys have been susceptible to that sort of misdirection a lot. It's the price you pay for heavy flow to the ball. If you run that type of defense you will look like a chump sometimes. You hope you get home enough and cause a couple turnovers that the odd time you look stupid does not matter.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:45 PM   #990
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Congrats to froot loops!

I was way wrong about this game. Very embarrassing. I overestimated O'Korn and Harbaugh, and underestimated Dantonio (who remains an ass).
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Old October 13th, 2017, 07:35 AM   #991
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Analytics project Michigan to finish 4th in the BT East behind osu, psu and MSU going 8-4 with 4 conference losses. This is based on mid-season data the strength of which is pretty solid. Of course, shit happens ..... lets just hope Michigan has already experienced their share of it..

The additional 3 losses come to PSU, Wisconsin and osu.

M's point spread at IU is at 6.5 with PSU favored by 8, Wisconsin by 7 and osu by 9

By this analysis if you are in to such things, a loss at IU will most likely produce a 7-5 season. Most of you will recall that only a few of the most pessimistic of us here called for a 7-5 record in 2017 but, then again, no one could predict the loss of Wilton Speight and Tarik Black. The reasonable ones called for 8-4, the most optimistic 9-3 or better.
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On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): “We'd rather be about it than talk about it."
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Old October 13th, 2017, 08:11 AM   #992
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Feels like that would be the worst coaching year in Harbaugh's history. Complete and total failure to coach around weaknesses. I don't think it'll happen.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:24 AM   #993
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Quote:
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...........Complete and total failure to coach around weaknesses.......
Well, Jimbo Fisher at FSU is 1-4. He lost his starting QB, Francois, after the second game. I can see 2, maybe 3 more losses on their remaining schedule (Clemson, FL, maybe Louisville) to finish at best 6-6, worst case 5-7.

Your assessment is a little too harsh for me. Joe Klat at Fox Sports agrees with me.

http://www.foxsports.com/the-herd-wi.../1070254147600
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:29 AM   #994
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He lost Francois in the 4th quarter of the first game.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #995
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That doesn't give Hack a pass.
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On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): “We'd rather be about it than talk about it."
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:33 AM   #996
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I know. Just flexing my pedantry.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #997
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I'm all for accuracy.
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On Harbaugh's expectations for M football in 2015 (NFL NETWORK): “We'd rather be about it than talk about it."
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #998
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Well, then, Jeff, you are aware that I have said that I don't believe JH suddenly became a bad coach on arrival here in Michigan. And that I place no stock in the theory that he is no longer a competitive person, or is checked out and going to the Colts. Coaches have good years and bad.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #999
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Coaches have good years and bad.
That's true. UFM is coming off a year where he didn't win 12 games nor did he even win his own division outright. It happens.

Buchanan:

hello
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Old October 13th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #1000
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Your school takes disgraced ex-coaches caught cheating and gives them a hero's welcome.
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