Detroit Tigers

[froot loops]

With baseball it is a very difficult task to build a solid foundation on cheap homegrown players from the farm before you start buying players. You can point to specific franchise's who have won a World Series, but most of the time it doesn't work. You need a top notch farm system that can develop players or be very good internationally, the Tigers are neither. It is kind of the same situation that the franchise was in at the end of Randy Smith. They tried the same formula to do this for about 7 years before they hired Dave Dombowski. They had a farm system under him that produced a few high value players at the majors league level and they had enough high value prospects that they could trade to get established big leaguers. But that was augmenting the club that was built through trades and free agent signings.

Currently, they have enough high value players in the farm that they could contend using a similar formula, but yeah Fraq is right about the flipping of guys. DD's last gift was a decent set of prospects he acquired in trades. Boyd, Fulmer and Norris and those guys are near free agency.

[The King]

“You need a top notch farm system that can develop players or be very good internationally, the Tigers are neither.”

They have a top 3 ranked system by every scouting service worth a shit. Now comes the spending. Baseball is a slow rebuild. This is how it works. For like the 1,000th time.

[Cody_Russell]

Hey now, BLEACHER REPORT has the Tigers farm ranked as #20 as of two days ago. 😆
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...2021-mlb-draft

...

WE WANT CADE. Good job, Detroit fans.

[The King]

All the sites had us top 3 coming into the season. That’s really not even news for anyone who follows them. You’re most likely seeing an updated ranking with guys like Mize/Skubal graduating, and not being considered prospects anymore.

[The King]

Ya. Much like Adele and Rich Paul the other day, the Pistons and Cade went public today.

Good shit. He’s a guy you build around. Don’t get fancy with some stupid ass trade down for shitty picks.

[Cody_Russell]

Sorry, cleaning up my posts. I'm done!

Mize and Skubal hitting the big leagues has been nice.

IMO, not as high on the Tigers farm system as others after you take out Mize + Skubal.
It's top heavy... and it's great that Tork and Greene should be good pros one day. Cautiously optimistic about Manning and Dingler. Those two have been hot and cold this year. Everyone else, there's a lot of uncertainty.
For example: Should I be excited to see Alex Faedo as the #9 ranked guy? Not so thrilled with his trajectory.

[The King]

We have a lot of 40/45 types. Those guys are regulars. The elite guys at the top are like top 20 guys overall. Tork/Greene/Manning.

You add in Jobe/Madden. Plus, we’re looking at a top 10 pick next year. That’s two more good additions, and maybe even land another comp pick.

[The King]

We have some top heavy, elite level guys mixed in with the 50 types like Dingler/Paredes. Then a bunch of depth. You can add talent via trade with all that depth.

[chemiclord]

I'm slowing coming on board with Chem and Froot on this.
Especially Chem's comment below about perpetually just over the horizon - that was the trigger for me when I look at this roster and the system as a whole.
At the earliest I'd expect the Tigers to try to add a big piece is when they can buy out the remainder of Cabrera's dead weight contract and flip it for something better - not throw money on top of a dead weight contract like that.
That means 2023-2024 - and if there is nothing to build off of to get a big piece to even want to come - then there lies the perpetuality Chem mentions.
Then you see arbitration eligible guys getting flipped instead of paid - and you are back to square 1.

I mean, that's been the Pirates modus operandi for the last couple of decades; be just good enough to keep people coming in... but always have a reason in your pocket to never go all-in.

[froot loops]

I'm not that impressed with the rankings, it's all based on just a few top level players. The King keeps on pointing to how many too 100 prospects there are. It's really not that impressive If you have 5 in the top 100, you get ranked pretty high. That doesn't mean much when you have 25 guys on the roster and you may use 35 players over a season. Even if all 5 hit, that doesn't mean they will be All Star caliber.

Theres not enough depth where they can continually supply the big league team with talent. With what they have now, even if a high amount of these guys hit, it won't be enough. They need to be spending at 135-160 million to compete with the type of farm system they have.

Some of these pitchers are close or are already at the big league level, so they should be spending big now. It was a winning formula starting in 2004, it can be the same now. They didn't wait after 2003, and that was a great thing. Just pointing to rankings is not a winning formula and has never been a winning formula.

[The King]

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2021-in-season-prospect-list/farm-ranking?sort=-1,1&team=&type=100&filter=&pos=

Ok, you want to spend $135-160, but the value of our top 3 guys are worth a combined $170 in value. We’re talking Tork/Greene/Manning. That’s not even counting Mize/Skubal who have a future value themselves around $50 before you have to extend them. I’ve stated numerous times before, but these guys are under control for 7 years. At amazing value.

You’re just wrong and based on years of evidence, not well versed in overall value of prospects value. Once they get promoted and the clock starts on their service time, then you start to spend.

You don’t spend NOW. As in the 2021 season. You’re just clueless. Starting next year, Mize/Skubal will have 6 years of team control. The spending will start this offseason and hit overdrive in the years after.

[The King]

It’s why the Lions were fucking morons for drafting a TE. It was shit value on a shit team.

It’s most likely why we passed on a 1st round QB this year. The value isn’t there to start the clock on a cheap contract. Maybe we go QB next year, but maybe not. Holmes gets it. Build the team up before you get the cheap rookie 5 year QB deal. Then you fill in the gaps before you have to extend the guy.

You have no longterm goal and always think like a fan. It’s why you wanted $25 per Verlander to stick around on a shit team. Or always wanting to spend now.

You have to build the foundation and frame before you build your meaningless additions and rack up your debt.

[The King]

That Fangraphs link doesn’t include Mize/Skubal. So based on future value, we’re the 2nd best system in baseball.

You build teams on rookie deals. End of story.

[chemiclord]

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/...0&filter=&pos=

Ok, you want to spend $135-160, but the value of our top 3 guys are worth a combined $170 in value. We’re talking Tork/Greene/Manning. That’s not even counting Mize/Skubal who have a future value themselves around $50 before you have to extend them. I’ve stated numerous times before, but these guys are under control for 7 years. At amazing value.

You’re just wrong and based on years of evidence, not well versed in overall value of prospects value. Once they get promoted and the clock starts on their service time, then you start to spend.

You don’t spend NOW. As in the 2021 season. You’re just clueless. Starting next year, Mize/Skubal will have 6 years of team control. The spending will start this offseason and hit overdrive in the years after.

No, it won't. There will just be another excuse why it's not the right time. Then another. Then another. Then it'll be time to trade off Mize/Skubal for prospects because it was just so unfortunate but the time was never right during their tenure in Detroit and there's no point paying them big money. Just sucks how it works that way, ya know?

[froot loops]

If they were going to trade Verlander they should have not gotten fleeced like they did was the argument. They handed the Astros a title and got two JAGs in Rogers and Cameron. The centerpiece didn't even pitch more than a few games for the Tigers farm. You were wrong on that trade and I was right, but somehow you keep bringing it up.

You also keep on bringing up contracts like MLB teams are making 100 million dollars. They pull in 250 million a year and they are spending less than a 100.million. It seems like you have this misguided notion that all the profits being saved by Chris Ilitch will be reinvested once the time is right.

This is same old song and dance Chris Ilitch and Denise Ilitch performed back in the 90s. Either you forgot or didn't follow the Tigers. It's OK, most newbies said the same nonsense you are spewing, I've got a thick skin and I've heard it before.

The time to spend is now, how many more years do you need to wear the hairshirt?