Michigan State at Michigan, Saturday, November 16th, Noon, EST, FOX/Fox Video

[lineygoblue]

I have family split with M/MSU., my son has ties to Michigan and still lives and works in downtown Ann Arbor and I do too (part time).

I have the same situation. My younger son has his degree from U-M, but he married a gal who is a huge MSU fan, as is her entire family. Summer picnics where both families attend are quite colorful...

I have spent many hours indoctrinating my grandson in the ways and virtues of being Maize and Blue ... I have to make sure his other Grandpa doesn't get the edge ...

[Jeff Buchanan]

A tid bit ..... I heard that several unnamed MSU players made a post game pit stop in a local bar. That is supposed to be unacceptable behavior to the NCAA during the football season. That they did this, just ignoring rules, it was suggested, that the players have checked out. I also heard second had from this same source that every defensive lineman and LB takes PEDs. Bachie was the only one that has gotten caught. It's rumor and second hand so TIFWIW.

Which brings me to this: The culture at the top levels of MSU's administration, among alumni and within it's BOT appears to have priorities that involve insuring MSU is "better" than Michigan ..... better in Basketball first, second in football, third in Hockey and then everything else. It apparently is this set of priorities that has led to the Nassar scandal and attempted cover-ups of it and now Dantonio's deposition in the Austun Robertson fiasco..... another blatant cover-up if Dantonio's accuser, Blackwell's, who left the AD in 2017, story holds up.

Just last month, MSU Trustee Nancy Schlichting resigned over her frustration with the Board for not opening an independent review of the Nassar crimes and how these were allowed to occur without any apparent concern about them when it became clear he was acting criminally - as in a licensed physician carrying out inappropriate genital examinations of female MSU athletes.

Linesman speaks of a different kind of culture, one honoring integrity and tradition, when Duffy Daugherty was there in the 60s - early 70s. Maybe things were different then. I wasn't' paying attention but it's an understatement to say that MSU culture is in the toilet. The shaping of collegiate culture, such shaping that comes from leadership and accountability at the highest levels, has failed. It may take a huge drop in enrollment of female students when parents say, I'm not sending my daughters to Michigan State because they are not safe there.

So, yeah, it's a joke, perhaps, that MSU is a little brother or in Ambry Thomas' terms, little sister, to M but the stuff that has gone on in the past and apparently continues to go on trumps a football rivalry. I wouldn't want that rotten organization associated with my family in any way. It should be an embarrassment for MSU alumni and until they start speaking up, stop donating and find ways to replace the entire BOT along with the president and AD ..... a house cleaning so to speak, will MSU be able to achieve a parallel culture to that of the the University of Michigan.

It's great to be a Michigan fan today on so many levels....... looking down from lofty heights upon Sparty scum.

[lineygoblue]

Linesman speaks of a different kind of culture, one honoring integrity and tradition, when Duffy Daugherty was there in the 60s - early 70s. Maybe things were different then. I wasn't' paying attention but it's an understatement to say that MSU culture is in the toilet.

I became a teenager around 1967, and that was at the apex of Duffy's career at MSU. Duffy was so respected in Michigan, that he was almost considered everybody's kindly grandpa. All the teenage boys my age wanted to go to MSU and play for Duffy. If Mike Hart would have hit Duffy up with the "little brother" crap, Duffy would have just smiled, maybe even laughed, and then turned around to send his boys out to smack the crap out of Michigan. He wouldn't have gotten down to that level. And yes, I say "down to that level" with Hart's statement, because that's what it was. He should have kept his fat mouth shut. You don't say that stupid crap, especially in front of cameras and microphones. Say that in your dorm room, or in the locker room, or whatever. Not to the freaking media.

I'm still shaking my head at how slowly MSU is moving to get the Nassar situation behind them. They just don't seem to get just how horrible that situation was, and how embarrassing their "corrective" actions have been. Its almost like they think if they don't talk about it, that it will go away on its own. They seem to think that since Nassar is now in jail, that everything has been fixed. In my opinion, there is a real lack of institutional control over there, and nobody seems to care about it. I wish we'd see more of the prominent alumni stand up and demand action on this thing and see come real corrective changes in that culture. People like Magic Johnson, Steve Garvey, Kirk Cousins, etc., need to stand up and demand action. This would be a perfect time for Tom Izzo to stand in front of a microphone and demand that the school he loves make some real changes, .. but he won't do that. I have no idea why.

I think Packy linked an article about a week ago that indicated that MSU has the reputation in college football as being "steroid central". I have no idea if that is true, but Jeff's comment brought that to mind. But, it wouldn't surprise me. They'd seemingly do anything necessary to find a way to claim superiority over Michigan. Well, except for playing fair.

[Tom W]

Mettelus's post game comments pretty much nail it.

"I was telling them to go home. It was time for them to leave. They didn't deserve to be in our stadium, and I was just trying to wave them goodbye because some of them wanted to stay on the field when it was our time to shine. We came out with the W, so we were telling them to go home."

"I feel like we're way more classy than them. They tried to take it to a level that wasn't playing football, and we play football over here. I don't know what they do over there, but we play football, and it showed today."

For that, I say, Fuck Dantonio and fuck MSU for letting him run a goon squad for the last 13 years. This is their character and their identity. As much as we can hate osu, or ND or any of our other rivals, we can agree that they aren't goons.

[lineygoblue]

For that, I say, Fuck Dantonio and fuck MSU for letting him run a goon squad for the last 13 years. This is their character and their identity. As much as we can hate osu, or ND or any of our other rivals, we can agree that they aren't goons.

When Dantonio and Narduzzi came in, they made beating Michigan their top priority. I have no problem with that. We are the 'big game' for a lot of teams. The problem I have with MSU is what Tom refers to above. He's absolutely right. Dantonio and Narduzzi came in and brought a goon style football to East Lansing, and have tried to call it 'toughness'. Narduzzi was questioned about some of the late hits and UC calls against his team and he said, "Football is 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness". Cute. But, the message received by his team was that this crap is acceptable as long as it doesn't get flagged. Ask Jerel Worthy about what he was trying to do when he twisted Denard Robinson's helmet as he lay at the bottom of the pile. It was caught on national TV. He never apologized. He laughed and joked about it. And they were pulling the same crap yesterday when Panisuck was tossed for a flagrant foul.

In a couple weeks, OSU will come in, and they'll be trash talking, bouncing around, thumping their chests, and just generally being obnoxious. Its expected, because that's what OSU does. But as Tom said, its highly unlikely that you'll see the blatant thuggery that is embraced by Dantonio. You don't see it with Notre Dame either.

I doubt that Duffy would be proud of what MSU has done under Dantonio, and how they got there. And it would break his heart to see how they handled the Nassar situation.

[Hannibal]

TBF I don't think that the Nassar situation should be brought up in connection to Dantonio. He is a piece of shit on his own an he was one before he got to MSU. So yeah. Fuck him and his goon squad, ski mask beatdowns, roided up players, and 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness.

Kudos to Harbaugh for making sure to get that last TD and rubbing it in. MSU likely won't have the horses to avenge it next year, or the year after that. There is at least a minor rebuild job coming in East Lansing.

Fickell would be a very good hire for MSU though IMHO. I thought that he would bomb out disastrously at Cincy but I was wrong. It looks like he is a great head coach and he would be a great fit there.

[hack]

I hope Dantonio clings to it. He's still got a winning record against Michigan, and it would be nice to at least put a bigger dent in that before he goes.

Still a long way off owning this rivalry in the way that's desired. They had an awfully good run, and this is still the first back-to-back win in the series in more than a decade. Should be looking to put together a pretty long streak here.

[Hannibal]

I doubt that we'll do better than 2 out of every 3 most of the time. Moeller and Carr went 13-5 against them, in an era where we were much more dominant in recruiting and they were saddled with a couple of bad hires. If they do right with their next hire, then I'd be fine with winning 7 out of 10 against them.

I do expect at least four in a row though by 2021.

[hack]

Somewhere between 2 or 3 and 3 of 4 is the right ratio, historically. But my point is just that there's gonna need to be a streak to get back in that neighborhood, even. It's just back-to-back wins here. Not that big a deal.

[Hannibal]

[hack]

Realistic and worthwhile goal.

[Jeff Buchanan]

TBF I don't think that the Nassar situation should be brought up in connection to Dantonio.......

Strongly disagree. The point I was making about the culture at MSU embodies the revenue sports and the rest. The Nassar case revealed the toilet bowl culture there and it cuts across football. Dantonio is facing a deposition with all the implications of it as I mentioned above.

It's all about priorities. If looking better than the University of Michigan is the goal of Alumni who donate, the BOT and the president, the stink that's developed there is a direct reflection of those priorities at the expense of integrity. Dantonio is a part of the MSU culture that from the top down, no one is accountable to a higher standard of conduct because nobody is enforcing one.

[hack]

Hard to argue that; nobody should care to. Institutional values at MSU are quite clear.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Back to the game. This stat caught my eye. Patterson's longest credited pass was 42 yards and that was a a quick throw to Ronnie Bell running a drag route across the middle who caught a perfect throw 12 yards past the LOS and sprinted past nearby defenders with the ball for another 30 yards. Cornelius Johnson had a similar play for 39 yards. McKeon, DPJ, Collins and Black all had catches in the 20-30 yard range and everyone of these catches had at least 10 YAC.

Patterson was not asked to throw deep to anyone. The passing game focused on the short flat and the middle of the field at 15 yards or less. There was a TE seam route and several throws inside MSU's 20 to the end-zone. NOTHING went long.

Where has this passing game, which most of us thought was in Patterspn's wheelhouse, if not his strong suit, been? While it's true that the way MSU deployed its Quarters D invited this game plan and so did inexperienced CBs and Ss who flat out blew coverage or got blown away by the speed of guys like Black, Bell and Jackson. On replay, this is the first time I've seen these crossing and drag routes open. Patterson did hit a few tight windows but he didn't have to the majority of the time. Will this continue v. IU? v. osu? The recipe is there. Can the ingredients be combined to produce a Michelin Five Star meal?

It's easy to think the passing game is fixed, we have speed in space and all that. But I have my doubts. For Patterson, this game was a huge confidence builder and that may help remove some of his indecisiveness, bailing too quickly and risk aversion. It's also pretty clear that despite MSU's bad pass D, the receivers were running the right routes, the timing was perfect to make these plays go and Patterson had a lot of DO throws.

1/9 games it was there. Remember that. Hoping against hope Patterson and his receivers can bring their A games 2 more times and the OL can keep the QB clean like they have more times than they have not.

[WM Wolverine]

Patterson doesn't have a good deep ball, he's been lucky to have Nico who wins most jump balls.