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Michigan Football, 2021 Season

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  • You doubt me?

    Pfffft. NO WINGS FOR YOU!!!
    Shut the fuck up Donny!

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    • Gee, you're mean.
      "Some people think when they are standing on 3rd base, that they just hit a triple" -- Jim Harbaugh 2021

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      • Just read this in my news feeds this morning. Apparently the BT announced on Saturday that the 2022 M/MSU game will be played in Ann Arbor instead of the previously released schedule in EL. The BT was supposed to release a 2022 schedule this week. I haven't seen it.
        There is such a thing as redemption. Maybe we're seeing one. We just saw it!!!. M 42, OSU 27. 11/27/21.

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        • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post
          Just read this in my news feeds this morning. Apparently the BT announced on Saturday that the 2022 M/MSU game will be played in Ann Arbor instead of the previously released schedule in EL. The BT was supposed to release a 2022 schedule this week. I haven't seen it.
          Great news. That was some real bullshit. Plus I think that gets one of MSU/OSU on the home schedule every year.

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          • I thought the Big Ten was out to get Michigan.

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            • Mike, it's hard to defend Harbaugh, no question about that. I think his supporters, among which I am one, tend to separate the horrendous record he's amassed against OSU and now MSU in his 6.5 seasons as M's HC from what appears to be a sort of randomness and misfortune that afflicts M in competitive games between these two schools. I could probably extend that assessment on further analysis to other P5 schools his teams have lost competitive games to. In a select number of games against MSU and OSU, factors that mitigate fingering Harbaugh as incompetent and worthy of dismissal, are legend. When a game outcome is out of your control, it's hard to blame the guy in charge. I think, in some cases, that assessment applies to JH.

              If in assessing M's disappointing W/L record under Harbaugh, we look at process rather than just result, IMO he deserves some credit and support. One can argue the process of getting M football to the point that it is winning championships is taking too long. I'll grant that and won't try to dismiss that viewpoint as being irrelevant. Having said that, the changes he made in the off-season this time around seem to be producing solid results. No one realistically expected that M would have a shot at winning 10 games and they still do.

              Other mitigating factors in support of Harbaugh is that outcomes of a play-call or the final score are not dependent on one factor, e.g., the HC. So many things go into the result of a play or a final score, it can be misleading to assign one cause, e.g., it's JH's fault, when multiple factors, often out his control, are present - player execution as it relates to outcomes is more like an orchestra's or Concerto's success in performing a complex Franz List or Johannes Brahms notoriously difficult pieces. Lots of parts contribute to success.

              I think Harbaugh gets high marks when one considers process and not result. While Don Brown's hiring looked like a great move when it happened, it turns out he was a terrible recruiter and that's showing now in several units on M's D. I think Harbaugh also realized in replacing him that there are other ways to play good defense than "solving all problems with aggression." No question the 2021 defense is miles better under McDonald than Brown's last one.

              Gattis is an upgrade at OC compared to the likes of Tim Drevno, albeit with some identifiable issues and what OC doesn't have those. The 2021 offense is producing markedly better results than the 2019 or 20 versions and way better than any of Harbugh's early offenses. Ed Warinner also seemed like a great hire when it happened. M's OL underperformed it's talent level under him. Who wouldn't agree that Sharon Moore hasn't done a great job replacing him with the added benefit across the coaching staff that recruiting will get a boost with younger and more engaging young guys now on Harbaugh's staff.

              My final point is that in CFB there's a tendency to want results right now and the HC is the guy responsible for doing that. There are good arguments that comparatively Jim Harbaugh is a very slow learner. That he is apparently that type of guy has been exceedingly painful for ardent M fans. Just look at the blow-ups after the MSU loss here and elsewhere. I think expectations of M fans when Harbaugh was hired were unrealistically high given the complexities I talked about above involved in winning championships in CFB, some of which Harbaugh has had no control over. Some he has and he deserves accountability for these. IMO, he's been held accountable, reassessed his failures in a process oriented fashion and deserves our support to assess the outcome of these both this season and next.

              There is such a thing as redemption. Maybe we're seeing one. We just saw it!!!. M 42, OSU 27. 11/27/21.

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              • 100% correct. Stay. The. Course.
                Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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                • I think Harbaugh gets high marks when one considers process and not result.
                  I guess I'm more of a "results oriented" guy when it comes to sports.

                  There are good arguments that comparatively Jim Harbaugh is a very slow learner.
                  See: Tucker, Mel. 24 point underdog in his first game against Michigan (Harbaugh's 6th in the series) and won the game. In his second game against Harbaugh (his 7th in the series) his team overcame a 16 point deficit late in the 3rd quarter and won the game. The guy who was laughed at for being Sparty's plan B has taken Jimmy's lunch money twice. Mark Dantonio beat OSU in Columbus en route to a Big Ten championship and playoff berth as well as beating them IN the BTCG. James Franklin beat OSU and won the Big Ten. It CAN be done.

                  I think expectations of M fans when Harbaugh was hired were unrealistically high given the complexities I talked about above involved in winning championships in CFB, some of which Harbaugh has had no control over.
                  They definitely were too high. However, the distance that he has fallen short is far greater than most anyone would have imagined. It's not like we're talking about him not getting over the hump to a national championship despite 3 trips to the playoff or having a losing record against OSU (3-4, for example). No. He's 4-14 against MSU/OSU/bowl games and it would be 4-15 if they played OSU last year and it will be in a few weeks.

                  For me it all comes down to winning the Big Ten which hasn't happened in 17 years (and counting). Michigan has never even been to Indy. To do either they have to beat Ohio State. Period. If Harbaugh goes 10-2 every year and finishes in the top 10 but never beats OSU, never goes to Indy, never wins the Big Ten, than what is the point? IMO, there isn't one. Michigan football has been relegated to one of hundreds of entertainment options available to people on weekends. MSU has been to Indy 3 times and won twice. We play in the same division. In fact here's a list of teams that has NOT made a single trip to Indy: Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Purdue, Rutgers.... and Michigan.

                  Is Harbaugh a good coach? Sure. Should the fanbase be pleased with the results? Absolutely not. Both things can be true. Ask Mark Richt.

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                  • This past Saturday I'd have been satisfied if Harbaugh/McDonald had learned their lesson, and made the proper adjustment the first time MSU went tempo, and caught the M defense with their pants down. Solve that problem right away, and maybe the scoreboard is different today.

                    In fact, that's the very thing I thought when it happened the first time. I told my son, "Well, they won't catch Michigan napping like that again".

                    Silly me.
                    Last edited by lineygoblue; November 4, 2021, 08:23 AM.
                    "Some people think when they are standing on 3rd base, that they just hit a triple" -- Jim Harbaugh 2021

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mike View Post

                      Is Harbaugh a good coach? Sure. Should the fanbase be pleased with the results? Absolutely not. Both things can be true. Ask Mark Richt.
                      Of course. I don't disagree, but that begs the question of "Who do you get?"

                      No fair stating "Almost anybody could have better results with this set of talent.." Which does have some air of truth to it. You don't need to venture out of the Big Ten or MAC to find a handful of theoreticals.

                      The Head Coach next year should be _______?

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                      • HARBAUGH!!!
                        Shut the fuck up Donny!

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                        • The Head Coach next year should be _______?
                          I just posted a similar question in the Around College Football Thread. Sometime today, I'll try to merge posts and responses to the question above in the Michigan Foobtall 2021 Season thread.
                          There is such a thing as redemption. Maybe we're seeing one. We just saw it!!!. M 42, OSU 27. 11/27/21.

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                          • In answering Tom's question above: There isn't one that I can think of that is both available and likely to be successfully recruited. I'm also unwilling to endorse cratering the current M football roster due to defections on active players and recruits if Harbaugh is dismissed ....... admittedly, I'm using this as a crutch to support keeping Harbaugh where Mike certainly argues effectively he should be fired based on results alone and no other considerations.
                            There is such a thing as redemption. Maybe we're seeing one. We just saw it!!!. M 42, OSU 27. 11/27/21.

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                            • Harbaugh' hasn't been as dynamic as I had feared when they hired him.

                              I'm not sure if the average fan should be able to identify who the next coach should be, It is hard to replicate success elsewhere as a football coach. If the average fan knows of the coach, you might have already seen his prime.

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                              • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post
                                In answering Tom's question above: There isn't one that I can think of that is both available and likely to be successfully recruited. I'm also unwilling to endorse cratering the current M football roster due to defections on active players and recruits if Harbaugh is dismissed ....... admittedly, I'm using this as a crutch to support keeping Harbaugh where Mike certainly argues effectively he should be fired based on results alone and no other considerations.
                                There are going to be transfer portal guys no matter what the coaching situation is. Michigan is likely to lose good players to the portal at the end of this season. That's life with the portal.

                                I don't think Harbaugh is going to be fired, no matter what happens in the remaining 4 games. Manuel will be satisfied that Michigan has shown enough improvement in 2021 to keep him on. As our good friends here often state, "stay the course". They'll get their wish once again.
                                "Some people think when they are standing on 3rd base, that they just hit a triple" -- Jim Harbaugh 2021

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