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  • iam416
    replied
    Three things can be (and, IMO, are):

    (1) You can question Rittenhouse’s decisions for exactly the reasons AA stated;
    (2) You can question Wisconsin law on general gun laws, open carry and self-defense (I think I agree with them, but it’s open for discussion); and
    (3) Under the indisputable facts and law, Rittenhouse should be acquitted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

    It's increasingly changing but for some people the idea that Prosecutors can be just as slimy as any defense attorney is utterly unfathomable.
    I generally fall on the side of the prosecution but they seem to have gone full woke - at least in certain areas That isn't an accident. I'm personally dealing with a criminal case in which a close family member was killed by an impaired driver with a long criminal history. Given my geographic location, I'm hoping the defendant sees the inside of a prison cell. I'm holding my breath.

    Leave a comment:


  • iam416
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

    I think the general public opinion is that defense attorneys, on the whole, are amoral sleazeballs while prosecutors are heroes protecting society. At least that was the predominant view in my childhood and the "BE TOUGH ON CRIME" community. That opinion has maybe shifted since lots of stuff becomes more widely known -- documentaries like Making a Murderer and all that.

    It's increasingly changing but for some people the idea that Prosecutors can be just as slimy as any defense attorney is utterly unfathomable.
    I don’t really dispute your characterization of prosecutors. Especially in machine cities. Cleveland, for example, has a grossly politicized office. It leads to incompetence more than malevolence.

    But, by and large, cases are pretty clear.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike
    replied
    Originally posted by CGVT View Post
    No. I am in favor of law enforcement doing their job without the "help" of gun toting vigilantes.
    I agree. It's unfortunate that so many LE agencies in this country are knee-capped by their politicians.

    Serious question: How close is someone supposed to come to death before they can defend themselves?

    Leave a comment:


  • iam416
    replied
    The genius of The Left is to push defund the police, generally allow the mobs to loot as they see fit, create lawlessness zones and then bitch about “vigilantes” — it’s staggering.

    Then again, The Chairman is doing everything he can to limit fossil fuel production and then bitching about prices for fossil fuels being too high.

    Comical.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlabamAlum
    replied
    CGVT.

    I don’t think Rittenhouse is a hero at all. And, as a father of a grown son, I look back at when my son was 17-years-old and try to imagine him roaming the streets during a riot with an AR-15 and all I can think is that I would have lost my goddamn mind if he had done that or asked to do that (because I can guarantee you he wouldn’t have if I knew anything about it).

    That riot was no place for anyone -rioters, onlookers, so-called helpers -no one. In fact, the only people who should have been there once curfew was called were the police and they sadly stayed out of the fray.

    But none of that matters. He was there. So were the rioters and a very real criminal element looking to cause trouble.

    Kyle was chased, kicked, struck, and knocked down. The question is this: When you are being chased and attacked, and you run, and are knocked down in a Purge-like night of lawlessness, do you have a right to defend yourself or do you just have to take your beating like a Reginald Denny (or worse)? It’s hard for me to imagine anyone trying to hang a homicide change on him. It would be extremely fucked up if he is found guilty.
    Last edited by AlabamAlum; November 18, 2021, 09:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Strangelove
    replied
    Originally posted by iam416 View Post

    I’m not sure this is a representative case in any way. But, it’s easy to concede that there are corrupt people on all walks of life. Perhaps draw out the analogy even further — elected officials lie and deceive so why on earth do we want keep entrusting them with trillions?
    I think the general public opinion is that defense attorneys, on the whole, are amoral sleazeballs while prosecutors are heroes protecting society. At least that was the predominant view in my childhood and the "BE TOUGH ON CRIME" community. That opinion has maybe shifted since lots of stuff becomes more widely known -- documentaries like Making a Murderer and all that.

    It's increasingly changing but for some people the idea that Prosecutors can be just as slimy as any defense attorney is utterly unfathomable.

    Leave a comment:


  • iam416
    replied
    Originally posted by CGVT View Post
    No. I am in favor of law enforcement doing their job without the "help" of gun toting vigilantes.
    Law enforcement wasn’t doing their job. Well, they were acting in accordance with D priorities of mob rule. So maybe they were. But they obviously weren’t stopping the mob.

    And in Wisconsin you’re allowed to open carry. And if someone starts beating you with a skateboard you’re allowed to kill them. I know you think you should just eat that beating, but thankfully that isn’t the law.


    Leave a comment:


  • iam416
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

    I WOULD like to note that I hope this makes a lot of people more comfortable with the idea that Prosecutors will lie or deceive to secure convictions. There is enormous public pressure to be tough on crime, get arrests, and secure convictions. And lots of people in the system are tempted to break the rules. I'm not going so far as to claim the guys who let shoplifters run free are therefore right, but consider how many well-known cases have involved prosecutorial misconduct and then stop and think about all the low level pieces of shit that got no media attention and nobody was going to miss if they got tossed in jail for a crime they didn't commit. The cops and DAs need to claim their collars.

    On top of that criminal defense attorneys don't often get appointed/elected judges. But prosecutors overwhelmingly do. (Since civil case attorneys play both plaintiff and defendant all the time, they're another story).

    Which is not to say cops and DAs are horribly corrupt either, just that it's something to have in the back in your mind when candidates try to outdo each other on how tough on criminals they're gonna be.
    I’m not sure this is a representative case in any way. But, it’s easy to concede that there are corrupt people on all walks of life. Perhaps draw out the analogy even further — elected officials lie and deceive so why on earth do we want keep entrusting them with trillions?

    Leave a comment:


  • CGVT
    replied
    No. I am in favor of law enforcement doing their job without the "help" of gun toting vigilantes.

    Leave a comment:


  • iam416
    replied
    Originally posted by CGVT View Post

    Not supporting either. That doesn't mean that Rittenhouse is innocent.

    I don't know if he will be found innocent or not according to the law, but he had no business being there and people are dead because of his actions.

    And that is indisputable.
    But for causation is the weakest of all arguments. So fucking daft. For example, if but for George Floyd passing counterfeit money he’d be alive (on that day). He had no business passing counterfeit bills. That’s indisputable. We know that. What we also know is the proximate or legal cause of his death was a murderous chokehold.

    But for Rittenhouse legally traveling 20 minutes to help out his dad, he wouldn’t be on trial. Sure. But the proximate cause of the scumbags deaths is their attack on Rittenhouse. Indisputable.

    The people who think Rittenhouse “provoked” the encounter simply by going to Kenosha are fully in favor of mob rule. The people who think you have no right to defend yourself or your property are in favor of mob rule. As long as it’s their mob.
    Last edited by iam416; November 18, 2021, 08:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike
    replied
    Binger lost an election for Racine County DA last go around. He is clearly looking for a scalp.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Strangelove
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike View Post

    This is one of those stories that will never die because people like me still find it somewhat intriguing. My money says he’s in Oakland County. You would want to get rid of the body ASAP.
    Hoffa being buried under the old Meadowlands stadium is my favorite but not likely.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Strangelove
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike View Post

    Wouldn’t be the first time I was shocked at an incorrect verdict. There’s OJ… Then before my time: Ruben Carter, many others. Hell, just today we’ve seen the exoneration of 2 men convicted in Malcom X’s killing and a death row inmate in Oklahoma granted a stay of execution at the last minute. Mistakes get made.
    I WOULD like to note that I hope this makes a lot of people more comfortable with the idea that Prosecutors will lie or deceive to secure convictions. There is enormous public pressure to be tough on crime, get arrests, and secure convictions. And lots of people in the system are tempted to break the rules. I'm not going so far as to claim the guys who let shoplifters run free are therefore right, but consider how many well-known cases have involved prosecutorial misconduct and then stop and think about all the low level pieces of shit that got no media attention and nobody was going to miss if they got tossed in jail for a crime they didn't commit. The cops and DAs need to claim their collars.

    On top of that criminal defense attorneys don't often get appointed/elected judges. But prosecutors overwhelmingly do. (Since civil case attorneys play both plaintiff and defendant all the time, they're another story).

    Which is not to say cops and DAs are horribly corrupt either, just that it's something to have in the back in your mind when candidates try to outdo each other on how tough on criminals they're gonna be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hannibal
    replied
    Real heroes burn down Wendy's.

    Leave a comment:

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