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**Kapture1** · January 25, 2019, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

who cares what Steve Bannon thinks

**Kapture1** · January 25, 2019, 02:47 PM

P2ZWx6r.jpg

**Dr. Strangelove** · January 25, 2019, 02:49 PM

Cernovich is disgusted with Trump too. Mr. Gorilla mindset himself. Now realizes Trump's just a beta cuck

**Kapture1** · January 25, 2019, 02:50 PM

Mike's been off the Trump Train for a while. so... ?

**froot loops** · January 25, 2019, 03:09 PM

Its a smart move for Trump, one of the smarter things he has done. Cut your losses and move on. It would have been smarter for him to listen to McConnell and not the right wing riff raff pushing him into an unwinnable fight. This whole thing has been stupid. If you really want something, you have to be willing and able to horse trade. If you don't horse trade you really have to have a winning issue and this certainly isn't a winning issue.

He would be wise to not listen to guys like Cernovich or someone like Ann Coulter, he's been listening to them too much. Doing that has gotten him into this mess, he keeps on pandering to a base that's not going to abandanon him and will readily buy any rationalization that he gives.

**froot loops** · January 25, 2019, 03:24 PM

At least he gets his State of the Union address back.

**CGVT** · January 25, 2019, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by froot loops View Post

Its a smart move for Trump, one of the smarter things he has done. Cut your losses and move on. It would have been smarter for him to listen to McConnell and not the right wing riff raff pushing him into an unwinnable fight. This whole thing has been stupid. If you really want something, you have to be willing and able to horse trade. If you don't horse trade you really have to have a winning issue and this certainly isn't a winning issue.

He would be wise to not listen to guys like Cernovich or someone like Ann Coulter, he's been listening to them too much. Doing that has gotten him into this mess, he keeps on pandering to a base that's not going to abandanon him and will readily buy any rationalization that he gives.

Exactly. When you are getting your ass handed to you as bad as he was over this, it is best to take it and move on.

Of course, the only thing that came of this is more of the people in the middle are aware of just how fucking stupid Mr "Art of the Deal" is when it comes to making a deal.

He tried to save face as he ramble, but anyone with more than half a brain (that eliminate his base) could see where this was going for him. When the vast majority of Americans don't want a wall, don't shut down the gov't to try to get one funded. What a dumb fuck.

**Kapture1** · January 25, 2019, 03:41 PM

it's too bad really, I would have liked to see this go on for so long that the federal workers get tired of not getting paid that they went out and found private sector jobs.

**Jeff Buchanan** · January 25, 2019, 03:56 PM

The trick now is for the Dems not to shit on Trump and for Trump to help shape and then agree to a bipartisan deal that improves boarder security (he is absolutely right about securing the boarders and limiting immigration) and deals with "Dreamers." The radical right needs to moderate on this issue as well as that of finding a responsible way (and there have been many proposals over past administrations) to deal with the illegals who came to this country, are contributing to the economy in meaningful way, supporting their families and being good citizens (and there are millions of them). The radical left advocating sweeping amnesty and safe zone for illegals needs to move to the center on this issue.

There's an interesting door of opportunity here for the President to make something positive come out of this debacle for him and Congress - both of whom share blame. Trump needs to start listening to people who have access to him that have a clue on immigration and not a shred of political bias. There are such people and even those with a bias can contribute as long as both sides are being heard. Froot is right. Trump needs to stop listening to the radical right media types and his base that laps up that shit. American voters, by-in-large, aren't there nor are they with the radical left. There's a centrist,conservative base that if Trump chooses to leverage it can help to mute (or expose) the bat-shit crazy socialist menu coming out of the new face of the Dems.

Yeah, I now, dream on.

**Jeff Buchanan** · January 25, 2019, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Kapture1 View Post

it's too bad really, I would have liked to see this go on for so long that the federal workers get tired of not getting paid that they went out and found private sector jobs.

Sure. No ATC, no TSA, none of the federal government provided services you yourself have come to rely on. How long would it take to privatize all this stuff? And don't tell me Regan did it. He tried and failed putting our ATC system in the US in a place that remains years behind the rest of the developed world that has such government services.

"Let them eat Cake."

**Kapture1** · January 25, 2019, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post

Sure. No ATC, no TSA, none of the federal government provided services you yourself have come to rely on. How long would it take to privatize all this stuff? And don't tell me Regan did it. He tried and failed putting our ATC system in the US in a place that remains years behind the rest of the developed world that has such government services.

"Let them eat Cake."

i was effected 0%.

**millenwasmyfavorite** · January 25, 2019, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post

The trick now is for the Dems not to shit on Trump and for Trump to help shape and then agree to a bipartisan deal that improves boarder security (he is absolutely right about securing the boarders and limiting immigration) and deals with "Dreamers." The radical right needs to moderate on this issue as well as that of finding a responsible way (and there have been many proposals over past administrations) to deal with the illegals who came to this country, are contributing to the economy in meaningful way, supporting their families and being good citizens (and there are millions of them). The radical left advocating sweeping amnesty and safe zone for illegals needs to move to the center on this issue.

There's an interesting door of opportunity here for the President to make something positive come out of this debacle for him and Congress - both of whom share blame. Trump needs to start listening to people who have access to him that have a clue on immigration and not a shred of political bias. There are such people and even those with a bias can contribute as long as both sides are being heard. Froot is right. Trump needs to stop listening to the radical right media types and his base that laps up that shit. American voters, by-in-large, aren't there nor are they with the radical left. There's a centrist,conservative base that if Trump chooses to leverage it can help to mute (or expose) the bat-shit crazy socialist menu coming out of the new face of the Dems.

Yeah, I now, dream on.

Yes.

There are countless ways to improve border security.

Dems have essentially written a blank check as to what sort of alternatives could be implemented, all at the cost of it not being a wall.

**Jeff Buchanan** · January 25, 2019, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Kapture1 View Post

i was effected 0%.

Yep, NIMBY ..... your motto. Fuck the rest.

**hack** · January 25, 2019, 04:35 PM

What you are saying about economic policy is to the right of Reason, Jeff. Why do you think your position is centrist?

**froot loops** · January 25, 2019, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post

The trick now is for the Dems not to shit on Trump and for Trump to help shape and then agree to a bipartisan deal that improves boarder security (he is absolutely right about securing the boarders and limiting immigration) and deals with "Dreamers." The radical right needs to moderate on this issue as well as that of finding a responsible way (and there have been many proposals over past administrations) to deal with the illegals who came to this country, are contributing to the economy in meaningful way, supporting their families and being good citizens (and there are millions of them). The radical left advocating sweeping amnesty and safe zone for illegals needs to move to the center on this issue.

There's an interesting door of opportunity here for the President to make something positive come out of this debacle for him and Congress - both of whom share blame. Trump needs to start listening to people who have access to him that have a clue on immigration and not a shred of political bias. There are such people and even those with a bias can contribute as long as both sides are being heard. Froot is right. Trump needs to stop listening to the radical right media types and his base that laps up that shit. American voters, by-in-large, aren't there nor are they with the radical left. There's a centrist,conservative base that if Trump chooses to leverage it can help to mute (or expose) the bat-shit crazy socialist menu coming out of the new face of the Dems.

Yeah, I now, dream on.

Jeff - there's no deal possible in my opinion. There will be no movement in three weeks or 2 years. They had a workable framework in 2006 and 2013 and it got squelched. Maybe they go back and revisit those talks but its doubtful, that time has passed.

I'm not President Deals but if I were and I really wanted a deal, labeling the other side as being for open borders certainly isn't a card you want to play. First off it poisons the well, it's a counterproductive move even if the insult is a form of cheap pop for your base. If you believe they are for open borders, its even worse. If someone were for open borders what would be an issue where it would nearly be the last thing you would be willing to give up? Logically a wall would be near the top of the list. When you are negotiating you do not emphasize the thing you really want, that raises the price you'll need to pay.

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