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Old July 15th, 2017, 04:39 PM   #22441
Dr. Strangelove
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Originally Posted by iam416 View Post
Good points re Clinton, Hanni. He was impeached for trying to avoid liability in a sexual harassment litigation by committing perjury. I didn't think he should be impeached and was glad to to see the Rs horse whipped for it, as you point out. But, the reasons for his impeachment are clear.

Finally, whatever one thinks of President Obama, he presided over devastating losses. Perhaps those were inevitable as the Heartland/non-coastal folks came their senses. Or perhaps his prog policies and talk were rejected. Whatever the reason, the Rs now dominate American politics. And, oddly, there is a case to be made that they are the big tent, anti-establishment party, or at least a number of folks on both sides have been making it. I definitely agree on anti-establishment. Not sure on big tent.
Clinton and the mainstream Dems abandoned protectionism in the early 90's. Some protectionist/blue collar Dems stuck around but were mostly extinct by the early 2000's.

Meanwhile Trump's the first major "Republican" since the early 70's to at least SOUND like he's very protectionist. I think that is what won him Rust Belt states moreso than anger over gay marriage or other social stuff. Many traditional Dem voters stayed home or flipped.

Last edited by Dr. Strangelove; July 15th, 2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #22442
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Maybe. I'm not talking gay marriage. I'm more talking being shamed for having unacceptable opinions. As one article put it, progs are now exactly what they detest in christians - judgmental, illiberal and full if their own virtue.

But, hey, if it's just protectionism then the Ds are in good shape.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:36 PM   #22443
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You can drop in any group in place of Christians, like conservatives, and the statement still can be true. Same thing for swapping out progs. All groups are judgemental and full of their own defined virtue. And now at full volume as if the loudest mouth wins. Obnoxious, hypocritical opposition is news?
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:37 PM   #22444
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Hey, great post Hanni. I particularly liked:

Quote:
I'm still waiting for somebody to offer to me one Trump policy item that is both favorable for Russia and counter to American interests. Somebody here name one. Seriously. Name a single one.
I also liked the song.

What I can say definitively is that I know of no one who voted for Trump who has any other emotion than disgust at ."....Russia.....Russia....Russia." If this keeps up, there will be a R sweep in 2018. Even the never-Trumpers, particularly those who have been counting on a tax cut, are completely fed up.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #22445
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Strange:

I hope you understand that the electoral maps you posted show only that there were no significant third or fourth parties in 2008 and 2012.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 08:55 PM   #22446
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The meeting with the Russian government was not first thing found in 8 months, it was just the latest. And the story changed 3 distinct times since the meeting was revealed. If it was the only thing, Flynn would still be NSA, Sessions would not have had to recuse himself. Manafort and Flynn would not have had to retroactively filed as foreign agents. Kushner would not have had to "amend" his security clearance form numerous times.

In other words, as I have been saying all along, if there is nothing wrong with colluding with the Russians, disclose everything. Why tell all the bald face whoppers? Why are they so forgetful when they meet with these people?

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Old July 15th, 2017, 09:04 PM   #22447
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It's seems like Donnie Two Scoops won't be visiting Britain anytime soon.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/402731...reception/amp/
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Old July 15th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #22448
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Jeezus. The guy is a clueless douche-bag bully.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 07:15 AM   #22449
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Originally Posted by Da Geezer View Post
Strange:

I hope you understand that the electoral maps you posted show only that there were no significant third or fourth parties in 2008 and 2012.
What significant third party? Gary Johnson and his 3%? Johnson was also running in 2012 and got less than 1%. If he counts as significant then it's only because disgust with Trump made him that way.

The maps demonstrate that each of the last 3 GOP candidates performed better among the voter eligible population in more states. The main region where Trump outperformed Romney/McCain is the industrial Midwest. Talent likes to attribute that to voters finally being fed up with prog judgemental attitude. I posited that Trump apparent protectionism and bashing of free trade deals is just as likely a cause of his improving on Romney/McCain in the Midwest.

However it should be noted that in both the West and Deep South, Trump under-performed the more traditional Republicans.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 07:25 AM   #22450
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Originally Posted by froot loops View Post
It's seems like Donnie Two Scoops won't be visiting Britain anytime soon.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/402731...reception/amp/
Brutal headline in a newspaper owned by Murdoch

Trump's approval rating hits alltime low

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-at-record-low
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Old July 16th, 2017, 07:28 AM   #22451
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Worth keeping an eye on...growing feud between Pence and Kasich offices. Kasich's people accusing Pence of spreading false stories about Obamacare creating long Medicaid waiting lists (they do exist for certain forms of care but seem to predate Obamacare).

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jo...rticle/2628763
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Old July 16th, 2017, 07:38 AM   #22452
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The Trump campaign hired a lawyer for Don Jr. two weeks before the email story broke. So do we still think it's totally plausible that Trump Sr. never knew about the meeting until just a couple days before the story emerged?

Also, be aware that any donations to the Trump Re-election campaign (which officially began on Inauguration Day) is in reality a donation to Trump's Legal Defense Fund.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=48661210
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Old July 16th, 2017, 09:28 AM   #22453
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More substantively, Susan Collins is a firm NO on the Health Bill, calling it "deep sweeping cuts to medicaid" on national tv this morning. I think she had previously said a few days ago that she was a no but a lot more forceful today.

Also, if you haven't heard, John McCain had eye surgery over the weekend and likely won't return to DC all week. McConnell definitely doesn't have enough votes to proceed without him (and might not even with him).

ALSO EDIT: Trump's overall approval rating at 50% in "Trump Counties". These are defined as counties that A) Flipped from Obama in 2012 to Trump in 2016 or B) Where Trump performed better than Romney did in 2012. However, the catch here is that Trump is underwater at 44-51% in the first category (the Obama counties). He's ahead 56-40% in the Romney counties. There's a nice map too showing where the counties are (a whole bunch of Obama flips in Iowa/Wisconsin)

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/firs...is-win-n783151

Sorry, should've also said that the poll only reflects counties in 16 states

Last edited by Dr. Strangelove; July 16th, 2017 at 09:35 AM.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #22454
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You would think Theresa May would do anything possible to not have Trump visit if she had any political sense. At any rate she can't fix it for him, nobody has ever been able to successfully fix the British Tabloids. They aren't the National Enquirer, which had the most embarrassing Trump cover this week. Pravda was more independent.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #22455
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Trump embarrasses himself again, telling Theresa May he won't visit until the British press is nicer to him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7843391.html


I love the dry British humor, from the same article.


Over 1.8 million people signed a petition to prevent Mr Trump from being honoured with a formal state visit.

The petition reads: “Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen.”


God save the Queen!
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Old July 16th, 2017, 11:56 AM   #22456
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What significant third party? Gary Johnson and his 3%? Johnson was also running in 2012 and got less than 1%. If he counts as significant then it's only because disgust with Trump made him that way.

The maps demonstrate that each of the last 3 GOP candidates performed better among the voter eligible population in more states.
You make my point for me. If there are more non-(R+D) votes as a percentage, there are less (R+D) votes as a percentage, and the percentage of (R+D) votes in 2016 was down. For example, there were 5.6% "other" party votes in 2016 and only 2% in 2012. It is mathematically incorrect to say that Romney did better than Trump in (say by 47-46) when there is a variable like third party voting unaccounted for.

The charts make sense only in a 2-party race.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 01:34 PM   #22457
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You make my point for me. If there are more non-(R+D) votes as a percentage, there are less (R+D) votes as a percentage, and the percentage of (R+D) votes in 2016 was down. For example, there were 5.6% "other" party votes in 2016 and only 2% in 2012. It is mathematically incorrect to say that Romney did better than Trump in (say by 47-46) when there is a variable like third party voting unaccounted for.

The charts make sense only in a 2-party race.
It's a function of Trump's weakness as a candidate (and incidentally, Clinton too) that he could not draw a higher % of the population than Romney, McCain, or Bush in those certain states. Gary Johnson was the same person in 2016 that he was in 2012. He got a higher share of the vote because Trump and CLinton were weaker options than Obama and Romney in 2012.

Romney got 59.59% of the Kansas vote in 2012. Trump got 56.16%. To say that Trump did as well or better there than Romney because of Gary Johnson's awesome campaign is pretty ridiculous.

Third parties do well mainly because the major party candidates are weak. And it's a stretch to say 3% is 'doing well'
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Old July 16th, 2017, 02:24 PM   #22458
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Here ya go Hanni. Netanyahu denounces Russia-brokered ceasefire. So the Trump White House is defying Israel with this plan. Is that in America's interests or not?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.801612
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Old July 16th, 2017, 06:36 PM   #22459
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US Intelligence believes the UAE hacked Qatari govt. websites and planted damaging stories. Per WashPo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.97337294bbee
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Old July 17th, 2017, 07:31 AM   #22460
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Trump team thought Obamacare Repeal would be done by March. Wildly overestimated how easy it would be. Republicans in Congress warn: tax reform will be tougher

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...e-house-240607
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