Red Wings

[JGSpartan]

As far as Holland is concerned he was a fine GM for most of his tenure. He gave some awfully big contracts to undeserving role players trying to hang on to the playoff streak. It's not entirely his fault with things like Franzen's injuries and Datsyuk going back to Russia but he didn't move other assets to Jumpstart a rebuild either. Saying he bungled the transition is a fair and accurate statement regardless of any past or future success.

[JGSpartan]

Basically, after all the talking up of Yzerman on this board, we expected him to be more than a generic, replacement level GM.

Seider got rookie of the year with Raymond close behind. Elmer Soderblom just won the same European best youth player award that Seider did last year with Simon Edvinsson also high in the voting. Cossa's team won the WHL championship going 16-3 with five shutouts in the playoffs. IDK maybe give the guy more than one year of his picks making it to the NHL.

[chemiclord]

I have always felt the criticism of Holland was way too harsh.

My feeling was Holland started the rebuild about 5 years too late, because he was desperate to extend the playoff streak. I also think he got more credit than he deserved for the work of overseas scouts. But beyond that, he was never an awful general manager. He can certainly put together good teams if he has the resources to do so.

[Tom]

I have always felt the criticism of Holland was way too harsh.

[froot loops]

You should be so confident in the Yzerplan that you can tell me they should finish .500 this year. It isn't a big accomplishment in year 4.

As far as the Oilers, they got to the ECF for the first time in a long time. Also, Ken Holland is so bad at his job that he has 4 rings as a GM.

[jaadam4]

You’re right, he sucks and should be fired immediately. The fun part is going to be watching Holland inherit McDavid and waste years of his elite talent until they realize they made the worst hire ever

[froot loops]

Basically, after all the talking up of Yzerman on this board, we expected him to be more than a generic, replacement level GM.

Or maybe they could admit that the judgment of Holland was way too harsh. If you are drafting near the bottom of the 1st round and free agency is allegedly terrible, there isn't a lot to do once guys start retiring. And maybe Kenny was right that it takes 10 y are to rebuild. I thought it to be BS, Jad should have said he was right at the time.

Had is so confident in GM Yzerman, that when asked if he is confident that the Wings could be .500 he can't even say yes. He gives a non committal answer about Blashill.

[froot loops]

.500 in year 4 is get rich quick? Not having a historically bad team defense is get rich quick? You speak like a guy who hasn't watched or listened to any games the last few years.

[jaadam4]

The path remains as it has been to build through the draft and then start trading assets when for players to push towards serious contention when you're out of top 10 yearly territory. Holland ran the farm dry.

There's no free agency short cut to fix that. Most years you have the whole league interested in 2-5 guys worth a shit and then a bunch of role players. Arguing the owner is a miser is a fun narrative and all but it doesn't change the facts of the league. It also has vastly smaller impact in the NHL than the MLB with only 20 mil separating the minimum and maximum salary caps.

Does Yzerman get a free pass forever? No. Does a new coach deserve some time to figure shit out? Yeah. Yzerman is imo now on a 2-3 year make it or break it with his coach selection and if they don't it's time for both to go.

As much sense as this makes to me, you're beating a dead horse with the DWT's of the Wings thread. They want get rich quick schemes which doesn't happen in the NHL.

[chemiclord]

Basically, after all the talking up of Yzerman on this board, we expected him to be more than a generic, replacement level GM.

[froot loops]

If all you are doing is waiting for top picks to become men, it is the same gameplan that the Tigers are using. You are paying the Yzerman the big bucks to find other players as well.

[JGSpartan]

The path remains as it has been to build through the draft and then start trading assets when for players to push towards serious contention when you're out of top 10 yearly territory. Holland ran the farm dry.

There's no free agency short cut to fix that. Most years you have the whole league interested in 2-5 guys worth a shit and then a bunch of role players. Arguing the owner is a miser is a fun narrative and all but it doesn't change the facts of the league. It also has vastly smaller impact in the NHL than the MLB with only 20 mil separating the minimum and maximum salary caps.

Does Yzerman get a free pass forever? No. Does a new coach deserve some time to figure shit out? Yeah. Yzerman is imo now on a 2-3 year make it or break it with his coach selection and if they don't it's time for both to go.

[froot loops]

What free pass are you talking about? NHL free agency sucks. That’s a fact. Big names don’t leave teams until they’re 30+ years old

Did NHL free agency begin when Yzerman was hired? If all you can do to improve the team is lotto picks it doesn't make sense that you were so hyper critical of Ken Holland and so forgiving of Steve Yzerman.

Surely there can be more ways to improve a team, if all you are waiting for is ping pong balls, I'm not sure what the hype is for. Nobody is stopping the Yzerplan from finding some underutilized players around the league.

[chemiclord]

I think it's absolutely fair to note that the owner is a miser when the team is spending near the bottom of the league.

[jaadam4]

So is the only way to improve a team is to.tank and get a lottery pick for 5 or 6 years? The free pass is endless.

What free pass are you talking about? NHL free agency sucks. That’s a fact. Big names don’t leave teams until they’re 30+ years old