U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[Deuce]

Psst. News flash for you.

The Michigan schools really aren't as good as you think either. Michigan gets bullied in the paint distressingly easily (and relies FAR too much on their perimeter and 3-point shooting as a result), and MSU can't maintain a high level of play for more than spurts at a time.

When I look at the Big Ten, they've simply become the new Big East; a conference that talks about how great they are... gets 8+ teams in the tourney, then 7 of them are eliminated in the first two rounds because shockingly, they aren't as good as the narrative claims.

Just awful

[chemiclord]

Just awful

We'll see, I suppose.

Care to elaborate though?

Oh... you probably can't because deep down you realize I'm right. Yeah, that happens. It's okay.

Let's see here, let's see these big out-of-conference tests that Deuce was talking about.

Indiana's highest ranked OOC opponent, #14 North Carolina. To be fair, they convincingly won that game... aaaaaaaand... nobody else (including a loss to Bulter).

Michigan's highest ranked OOC opponent, #18 NC State... aaaaaaaaand... nobody else.

Ohio State played Duke and Kansas... and lost both quite soundly.

MSU played Kansas (win) and Miami (and was routed)

Sure sounds like the Big East method to me; limit OOC challenges and beat each other. Claim superiority.

[Deuce]

We'll see, I suppose.

Care to elaborate though?

On what? No offense, I love ya Chemic, but I think I lost conscious thought after "Indiana is not really that good or atheltic and Michigan, the most efficient offensive team in the land is not that good because they have the same kind of flaws as Duke, who is, like Miami, better than the Big Ten teams because they (a slow bully of a team) have too much speed for Indiana, perhaps the quickest in the NCAA."

Good night.

[chemiclord]

On what? No offense, I love ya Chemic, but I think I lost conscious thought after "Indiana is not really that good or atheltic and Michigan, the most efficient offensive team in the land is not that good because they have the same kind of flaws as Duke, who is, like Miami, better than the Big Ten teams because they (a slow bully of a team) have too much speed for Indiana, perhaps the quickest in the NCAA."

Good night.

You keep citing Indiana's speed. Where is it?

Because that Indiana team I've seen first hand several times doesn't show it. They are beat with penetration and kickouts largely at will. Their offense comes from crashing the boards and letting their big frontcourt create opportunities for a largely flat-footed backcourt.

You keep citing the hype, I'll keep addressing what is put in front of me.

We'll see later this month if the Big Ten lives up to their rep.

EDIT: Hey, ya know what... I'll throw this out there, just to acknowledge I might be wrong about this. Maybe the nature of Big Ten play is slowing teams like Indiana and Michigan and OSU and MSU down, and that once they get into more neutral environs that these teams will speed back up.

[Deuce]

We'll see, I suppose.

Care to elaborate though?

Oh... you probably can't because deep down you realize I'm right. Yeah, that happens. It's okay.

Let's see here, let's see these big out-of-conference tests that Deuce was talking about.

Indiana's highest ranked OOC opponent, #14 North Carolina. To be fair, they convincingly won that game... aaaaaaaand... nobody else (including a loss to Bulter).

Michigan's highest ranked OOC opponent, #18 NC State... aaaaaaaaand... nobody else.

Ohio State played Duke and Kansas... and lost both quite soundly.

MSU played Kansas (win) and Miami (and was routed)

Sure sounds like the Big East method to me; limit OOC challenges and beat each other. Claim superiority.

The Big Ten beat 3 (Kansas,Gonzaga,G-town) of the top 5 teams in the land in the Pre-C schedule. You are not taking all the facts in correctly. Michigan beat Kstate a now top 10 team and Pittsburgh a top ten BPI team, Indiana also beat G-town a now top 5 team. ALso, if you truly examine it and compare the Big 10 to other conferences, it ranked as the best conference in the OOC schedule. Illinois also beat Gonzaga and Butler, Minnesota beat Memphis and Cal. . Ohio St, played Duke at Cameron Indoor with Ryan Kelly better than any other team has to this day. OSU is like the 5th best Big Ten team.

[Deuce]

You keep citing Indiana's speed. Where is it?

Because that Indiana team I've seen first hand several times doesn't show it. They are beat with penetration and kickouts largely at will. Their offense comes from crashing the boards and letting their big frontcourt create opportunities for a largely flat-footed backcourt.

You keep citing the hype, I'll keep addressing what is put in front of me.

We'll see later this month if the Big Ten lives up to their rep.

EDIT: Hey, ya know what... I'll throw this out there, just to acknowledge I might be wrong about this. Maybe the nature of Big Ten play is slowing teams like Indiana and Michigan and OSU and MSU down, and that once they get into more neutral environs that these teams will speed back up.

You get severe tunnel vision sometimes. Ferrell, Oladipo and Zeller are 3 of the quickest players at their positions in the entire country. Noone other than you accuses Indiana of lacking speed. Speed is what they are most famous for. Then again, you are just improvising here anyway, you also think Miami has great speed.

Miami would try and "Wisconsin" Indiana, not run with them.

[chemiclord]

You get severe tunnel vision sometimes. Ferrell, Oladipo and Zeller are the arguably the 3 quickest players at their positions in the entire country.

Oladipo and Zeller I give you.

I haven't seen anything other than stand in one spot and look helpless as someone blows by him from Ferrell yet.

Even if you DO buy that, 3 players does not team speed make.

[Deuce]

Oladipo and Zeller I give you.

I haven't seen anything other than stand in one spot and look helpless as someone blows by him from Ferrell yet.

Even if you DO buy that, 3 players does not team speed make.

More world famous Lion fan "eye tests". Fuck me for trying.

[chemiclord]

More world famous Lion fan "eye tests". Fuck me for trying.

Dude... if you tell me that "X" is "Y", but I don't SEE either "X" or "Y", I'm just supposed to take your word for it?

Because you (like always) fall for the hype, and become completely blind to anything else.

[The Oracle]

But in this case he's 100% correct.

[Deuce]

Dude... if you tell me that "X" is "Y", but I don't SEE either "X" or "Y", I'm just supposed to take your word for it?

Because you (like always) fall for the hype, and become completely blind to anything else.

You can re-examine the facts I gave you about the Big Ten to see "X is X" like I said, and then just be happy I didn't ask you the one question that hurts your arguement the most "Who's better". The ACC? The SEC? There are no land mines in those conferences, instead of getting 4 straight top 15 games like Michigan and MSU had, you get 7 straight against schools outside the top 50 like Miami enjoyed. I mean, Miami has played 4 ranked teams all year, and yet have 6 losses! And lost to Indiana STATE, Fla Gulf Coast, Wake Forest,Ga Tech. Give them credit for beating a shorthanded MSU team at home and killing Duke at home, but their resume is sketchy if you think they are a top 2 team.

The Big Ten is better than the SEC,ACC,Big 12,Pac-12. The Big East is only comparable conference and Indiana beat their top team in Georgetown. Review their resumes with the same critical eye you did the Big Ten, and you will see your error of your arguement.

[chemiclord]

Are you asking me, from top to bottom who the best conference is?

Sure. The Big Ten.

Just like, sure, from top to bottom, the Big East was probably the best conference in past years.

But who gives a shit? Do you think if U-M is eliminated, they cheer, "GO BIG TEN?" No. Only mentally handicapped rejects of SEC football do that, because it's stupid.

It's not this gulf where there are Big Ten teams that stand out over the rest of the country. It's Duke, then Miami, then a glut of four Big Ten teams, Kansas, and maybe Gonzaga. (Hell, just for you, throw Miami in with that morass of teams in the second tier. It doesn't particularly matter. I'll give that to you.)

The Big Ten isn't THAT much better, and it's certainly not something to brag about like you want to.

But... what the hell does this have to do with Indiana's lack of team speed? Can we stick to one point please... or do you wanna move the goalposts some more?

[Deuce]

Are you asking me, from top to bottom who the best conference is?

Sure. The Big Ten.

Just like, sure, from top to bottom, the Big East was probably the best conference in past years.

But who gives a shit? Do you think if U-M is eliminated, they cheer, "GO BIG TEN?" No. Only mentally handicapped rejects of SEC football do that, because it's stupid.

It's not this gulf where there are Big Ten teams that stand out over the rest of the country. It's Duke, then Miami, then a glut of four Big Ten teams, Kansas, and maybe Gonzaga. (Hell, just for you, throw Miami in with that morass of teams in the second tier. It doesn't particularly matter. I'll give that to you.)

The Big Ten isn't THAT much better, and it's certainly not something to brag about like you want to.

But... what the hell does this have to do with Indiana's lack of team speed? Can we stick to one point please... or do you wanna move the goalposts some more?

Indiana does not have a lack of team speed, that was just a dumbass comment you made out of nowhere. They play high possession basketball and use their speed to overwhelm opponents. That is why they struggle against slower grind-it-out teams like Wisconsin. Crean is all about running the break. I pointed out that they actually boast some of the NCAA's fastest players, and you said "3 players does not make a speedy team"..... Yes, because the other 9 players are historically slow and negate the fact that ACTUALLY run past opponents to regularly to score in the 80's. You can be frustrating when you argue such impossible points.

[chemiclord]

Indiana does not have a lack of team speed, that was just a dumbass comment you made out of nowhere.

I said I hadn't seen this team speed you laud. They haven't shown it on the court, where it matters, no matter how much hype you buy into.

You then launch into a tirade about the strength of the Big Ten conference.

Non sequitir, maybe?

[Deuce]

I said I hadn't seen this team speed you laud. They haven't shown it on the court, where it matters, no matter how much hype you buy into.

You then launch into a tirade about the strength of the Big Ten conference.

Non sequitir, maybe?

Yours. Not mine. I was simply responding to two different arguements (1.Big10 overrated and then 2.Indiana not as adverstised due to lack of speed) that I knew to be incorrect.

Just trying to help you man, don't want you losing any money in an office bracket pool.