M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[AlabamAlum]

This is less about the medium of social media and more about the obsession of CFB and god-like status that coaches have been raised to.

I don't agree. I spent a lifetime in managing professionals. When I see something like this, I ask myself "would I suspend or fire one of my managers if they had done what Urban did?" I just can't squint my eyes and come up with a scenario where I would hold that manager at fault knowing that the police and the prosecutor couldn't find anything to charge that manager's employee with.

"John, come in here and sit down. I understand that one of your employees had the police called on him but they did not arrest or charge him....

"Yeah, but.....

"SILENCE! Why did you not fire him?

"Well, like you said, the police and prosecutors couldn't find anything to arrest or charge him and I....

"SILENCE! Why did you not do an investigation to see if he should be charged?

"You mean I should have taken over the police investigation after they walked away?

"Yes, obviously. Also, why are you not opening his mail, specifically his Amazon packages?

"Open his mail? You mean I should...

"GET OUT OF MY FACE YOU SON OF A BITCH! YOU ARE SUSPENDED WITHOUT PAY!"

[Jeff Buchanan]

So, I guess we all agree that ufm should have fired ZS much earlier in this affair than he did.

osu fans, in particular, certainly would have liked that to have occurred where such matters like this should occur ..... out of the light of day.

Instead, we get a skewed reality, not based on facts from a tweet that prompts a knee jerk investigation that exposes osu and ufm to all kinds of sordid misdeeds magnifying the level of wrong doing by all involved parties.

This is why the court of public opinion is seriously flawed in comparison to a court of law where facts rule the day, the accused benefits from due process and irrelevant shit that might bias a jury against the accused is severely limited.

This is why we should be very careful to weigh the value of all the information we have available to us these days before rushing to judgement. I guess that's my major point in all of this and the osu affair seems to me to exemplify the dangers of social media and the rush to judgement very well.

[iam416]

osu fans, in particular, certainly would have liked that to have occurred where such matters like this should occur ..... out of the light of day.

OSU fans wanted him fired long ago for incompetence. His removal is a positive development, perhaps the only positive development from this whole fiasco.

[hack]

Froot's got it right that the coverup was worse than the crime, and drok nailed the notion that this was all self-inflicted. But this is what these people signed up for, and a part of having executive power over anything at a university today is being ready for these problems. You can either avoid them by having rules and following them, or you can manage them by appearing to follow those rules without actually doing so, and covering your ass in just the way OSU has done. So you get big posters in the lockerroom telling tell kids to respect women, but you don't get the coaching being willing to do so. The outcome should surprise nobody, so if you're not ready to manage the problems that arise from this basic tension, then you as a university executive can do one of two things: believe your own bullshit, or be ready to act like you do when the time comes.

[Tom W]

I'll follow drok's reason and extend it to say that Meyer played this whole thing out for his own benefit. It's actually pretty brilliant how he absolved himself of responsibility for the whackjob Smith family and then used the inevitable circus to mock Title ix, the media, the SJW culture and the university administrators. Those of us with common sense have grown pretty sick of all of them and well, it's kind of good to see each and every one of them get what they had coming to them. They all look like idiots and Urban ends up looking like the sound, rational one.

[drok]

I find the suspension thing goofy. He either did stuff that was bad and should be fired or he didn't and should be reinstated. The suspension is a cowardly middle ground that instead of placating both sides of the public opinion as was its likely intent, probably pissed off both sides instead.

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... drok nailed the notion that this was all self-inflicted. ........

So, McMurphy and the dangers of unconstrained social media on the truth don't have a bearing on the meyer affair outcome? McMurphy should not be held to account? This is not a nuanced argument. In this specific case, you either think there was no danger in social media's capacity to obscure the truth or create a false/alternative reality or you think there was a great deal of danger and it played some role - the degree of which it is fair to see that number differently.

.......But this is what these people signed up for, and a part of having executive power over anything at a university today is being ready for these problems. You can either avoid them by having rules and following them, or you can manage them by appearing to follow those rules without actually doing so, and covering your ass in just the way OSU has done. So you get big posters in the lockerroom telling tell kids to respect women, but you don't get the coaching being willing to do so. The outcome should surprise nobody, so if you're not ready to manage the problems that arise from this basic tension, then you as a university executive can do one of two things: believe your own bullshit, or be ready to act like you do when the time comes.

I tend to agree that osu, as exemplified in both the tressel and meyer affairs, is an example of this university willing to operate in the gray area of ethics and morality and when called on it end up scrambling to make a bad situation look as good as it possibly can (and wow, the presser two days ago was an absolute disaster in trying to do that).

I think most would agree that in this well circumscribed situation as an example, M is overly conservative meaning they have a record of unnecessary self-flagellation when wrongdoing is alleged. When there are such accusations, M will bend over backwards to take it in the ass. Does this sort of behavior pay dividends? I think right now, osu may be somewhat envious. This latest episode, regardless of how it all came about and what the fundamental causes of the unsavory revelations were, the reputation of the university has taken a pretty big hit.

[Hannibal]

Heh. I'm listening to Brian Cook on yesterday's WTKA round table. It's exactly as you might expect.

[Whitley]

This was a big top circus worthy of Allen Park back in the days of Matt Millen

1) Meyer should have known that sometime down the line this stuff with ZS was going to hit the fan. And he should have been prepared for it. The fact that he was caught off guard would seem to indicate (from this POV) that he either thought it would never come up (foolish in this day and age of media)/ he did not think this was a big deal (and that could be even more damning)

2) OSU had to investigate when this came to light. However, when you put your investigative team together. You can't have 3 people currently connected to the school (I think these guys were on the board) on the investigation team. That move puts a taint on whatever findings that comes out.

3) Look at how Maryland is handling things with the death of McNair. True there is no death here, but they came out and said that they are responsible for what happened. OSU should have came out in a similiar vein. There was a chance for some leadership here but it was flushed down the crapper at that press conference.

4) UFM does not deserve to be fired over this. However, you can't let him off without some sort of punishment. The problem here is that the first three games (Oregon State, Rutgers and @TCU) feels a bit light because there is not a chance that OSU loses any of those so there is very little risk here. There was a chance to be creative here but again they bypassed that.

IMO, the 3 games would have been fine IF OSU had said....it will be the first 3 B1G games (Rutgers, @Penn State and IU). In addition those weeks that UFM would have been suspended that would mean that is not allowed on the OSU campus or have contact with anyone associated with the OSU football program. Then there would have been some skin in the game for the Buckeyes.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Good recap, Whitley.

I guess people are going to differ with regard to the degree of punishment meeted out by the u. I still lay a good deal of the blame for the, IMO, unfair circus that was created on McMurphy in particular and social media in general but that's just me. My son who has been following this story as it unfolded closely and whose opinion I value, disagrees with me on about every point I have raised in defense of ufm.

[AlabamAlum]

[hack]

If you have proof McMurphy forced Meyer to lie at media day, Jeff, you'd have a point. Otherwise this is just more confirmation bias from you. You distrust media. You don't value transparency. You look to blame a social-media "circus" even though I showed you when this broke, using Google News, that the vast majority of coverage people were reading comprised statements of fact rather than blowhardy opinion pieces.

[Tom W]

I tend to agree that osu, as exemplified in both the tressel and meyer affairs, is an example of this university willing to operate in the gray area of ethics and morality and when called on it end up scrambling to make a bad situation look as good as it possibly can (and wow, the presser two days ago was an absolute disaster in trying to do that).

I think most would agree that in this well circumscribed situation as an example, M is overly conservative meaning they have a record of unnecessary self-flagellation when wrongdoing is alleged. When there are such accusations, M will bend over backwards to take it in the ass. Does this sort of behavior pay dividends? I think right now, osu may be somewhat envious. This latest episode, regardless of how it all came about and what the fundamental causes of the unsavory revelations were, the reputation of the university has taken a pretty big hit.

Tosu's reputation is pretty much summed up in your first sentence. Instead of taking a hit, it's been reinforced.

[THE_WIZARD_]

FIRE THE LAIR!!!

[hack]

I think it's fair to say that it operates in a grey area when it comes to NCAA compliance. When it comes to ethics and morality things are much more clear. There's no gray area there and saying so is to be confused or to engage in the kind of doublespeak that those people indulge in on a regular basis. They claim to hold themselves to a standard they actively and willfully and repeatedly ignore. ``Life promises to God", "Disciplina in civitatem", or Meyer's big lockerroom sign exhorting ethical behavior, etc. The football program's most-beloved coach was responsible for one of the most reprehensible on-field acts in the history of the sport, yet they revere him still. This is who they are. It's very clear and not grey.