Brady Unlimited III: Wolverines in the NFL & NFL News

[Tony G]

Didn't he lose last year?

oops. doesn't affect his ranking imho

[Tony G]

You can't go around nicking QBs for "managing" the game or "finding the running game" and go on and trump up Brady, who won his first SB on the back of a great defense -- a defense that scored a TD in that game.

If you're going to nick Roethlisberger for their 21-10 win over Seattle, fine. But you have to do the same for Brady and his 145 yards of passing and 13 offensive points against the Rams. Belichek and his defense won the SB that day.

Fair points. He still has two other wins and is not in the elite category

[iam416]

I also think Warner is a little low. He was great in two SBs. And Bellichek flummoxed him in the other. I mean, against a really, really good Pittsburgh defense, he was 31-43 for 377 yards and 3TDs.

The only knock on him is that 2 of the 3 INTs he threw in his 3 SBs were returned for TDs, with the Harrison "pick 6" being beyond improbable.

But even in his loss to the Pats, he was 28-44 for 365 (his lowest yardage total!) and rallied the Rams from 17-3 down in the 4th to 17-17.

Warner is definitely ahead of Roethlisberger, IMO (and I'm a diehard Stiller fan) and I'd easily have ahead of Plunkett, Sims, Elway and either Manning based purely on SB performance.

365, 377, 414. 6 TDs. Those are rock solid numbers.

[iam416]

Fair points. He still has two other wins and is not in the elite category

Yeah, I know. He's in the next category, and that's about right. Personally, there ought to be the Montana category. Then Bradshaw/Aikman (who were played well and played on ridiculously talented teams). Then the next category. As you noted, no one is even close to Montana when it comes to SB performances (stats + wins).

[Tony G]

I give Sims high marks for hitting almost every pass he made, throwing 22 of 25 for 3 TD.

Warner completed 24 of 45 in his big game for 2 TD

[iam416]

Yeah, but -- I mean, if Roethlisberger doesn't lead that drive to beat the Cards, then Warner is way higher -- he was fantastic in that game against a great defense.

Simms played a Broncos team that was in the habit of making any QB look like an f'n superstar. Doug Williams--superstar. Joe Montana--good god, he could have thrown for 12 TDs. In fact, heh, Simms' Giants put up the fewest points of any team against the Broncos of that era...39!

Warner played a great Stillers defense and a really good Patriots defense. For that matter, the NASCAR Jeff Titans had a pretty good defense, too. Over 1100 yards in 3 games is ridiculous.

Anyway -- good list -- fun discussion. Thanks, Tony.

[Tony G]

Actually I could see leaving the top four in the Very Very Good crowd and then below that is the Very Good Crowd. That would be as follows. I moved Warner over Pig Ben based on the strength of your point

The Undefeated Elite
Joe Montana – 4-0 and the undisputed best
Terry Bradshaw – also 4-0 Tough QB that made big plays when he had to
Troy Aikman – 3-0 Like Bradshaw and Montana, surrounded by awesome talent on both sides of ball

The Elite but not perfect Group
Roger Staubach – 2-2 Losses came against Steelers (never blown out). Ahead of Brady on Strength of Schedule
Tom Brady – 3-2 Down from potentially the best after two consecutive losses
John Elway – 2-3 Blown out badly in first 3 SB. Gets wins because Denver discovered running game
Phil Sims – 1-0 Had near perfect game. SB completion % still a record and moves him up list past many multiple game winners

The Very Good
Bart Starr – 2-0 Different era Gets graded higher due to NFL championships
Jim Plunkett 2-0 Just win baby Blew out Vermeil’s Eagle and the Redskins
Eli Manning – 2-0 Moving up in ranks, nowhere near done yet
Peyton Manning 1-1 Career ranking much greater than his position on this list
Kurt Warner 1-2 First game holds record for yards and passes w/o INT. Later losses move him down list
Bent Rapistberger – 2-1 1st SB really just managed game, nothing spectacular
Len Dawson 1-1 Also 1-0 with an AFL Champ.
Bob Greise – 2-1

The One Win Crowd (with above exceptions)
Bret Favre 1-1 Like Peyton Manning, his career ranking much higher.
Steve Young 1-0 His 6 TDs is a SB record Last win for Niners dynasty
Doug Williams 1-0 His 4 2nd qtr TDs sealed the game after being down 10-0. Skins coasted to win
Aaron Rodgers 1-0
Ken Stabler 1-0
Joe Namath 1-0
Drew Brees 1-0
Joe Theisman 1-1 Win in strike shortened season came against David Woodley as rookie Dan Marino sat on bench. Raiders stomped skins in his loss
Jim McMahon 1-0
Mark Rypien 1-0
Jeff Hostetler 1-0 – Here due to Scott Norwood
Brad Johnson 1-0
Trent Dilfer 1-0

[iam416]

Kurt Warner's "average" SB game: 28 for 44, 382 yards, 2 TD, 1 Int. AVERAGE! over 3 games. So, I would, personally, have Warner on par with or ahead of Brady, and ahead of Elway and Sims. But, heh, that's the fun of these types of lists...so much room for discussion.

BTW, Brady's average SB game: 25 for 39, 255 yards, 2 TD, 0.4 Int (his 2 Ints in 5 SBs is impressive).

[entropy]

not sure i'd rate Eli as under rated. They guy is perfect for the Giant system and anytime you have that many game winning drives and/or 4th Quarter TD's, you must be doing something right.

[hack]

I certainly would like to see this best-of-all-time discussion stop. Had Joe Montana been given the time in the pocket and the receivers of today he might have won every year.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Favorite Commercial (This was the only link I could find that isn't protected):

Fiat ....... I might buy one!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/super-bowl-advertisements-rating-good-silly-bad-fiat-chrysler-metlife-volkswagen-020512

[Tony G]

youtube dude

[UMStan White]

I don't know. There's something wrong when at the end of the game, with the game on the line,the defense has made a decision that it will intentionally allow the offense to score and the offense, with a score putting them up by at least four points with less than a minute to go makes the conscious decision that it will not score and ends up winning the game when some dumb shit can't execute the "nonscoring play" and literally fall on his ass into the end zone. Wonder how many times a season the Giants practices that play. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Up is down and down is up. Almost as insane as talent claiming OSu basketball and football is so great because it loses whenever it plays for a championship.

[*JD*]

I certainly would like to see this best-of-all-time discussion stop. Had Joe Montana been given the time in the pocket and the receivers of today he might have won every year.

Yeah, he had to just get by with some guy named Jerry ? Jerry? I forget.

[Tony G]

Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, and John Taylor, with Roger Craig out of the backfield, were no slouches either