Forum Administration

[lineygoblue]

Detroit has actually gotten better in the last few years. Its up to second world with a couple of large 3rd world sections. You want a real shit hole? Flint. Pack heat at all times and travel in groups. And only during daylight. Many areas could be used to film the next Mad Max movie. I believe that Flint is the most violent city in America, relegating Detroit to a distant third.

You're correct about Flint. I wouldn't even think of entering the city limits after dark. Its bad enough during the day.

The City of Saginaw is also a very dangerous area.

In Detroit, there are places where you can go after dark, and have a fair expectation of being safe. The Comerica Park/Ford Field/Greektown areas are all relatively safe when there are activities there. The police presence is fairly strong.

[Dr. Strangelove]

A small part of the problem for Michigan I think is that it's sort of isolated off the main transportation grid of the country. Ohio, PA, Illinois have rusting cities too but are all at least on major transportation routes across the country. Michigan doesn't really have that "just passing through" traffic or shipping except for maybe stuff heading to Canada from the Midwest. If someone from out of state is in Michigan then Michigan is probably their final destination.

[hack]

The Ambassador Bridge is the main trade conduit between the world's two largest trading partners. IMO Detroit's more of a symbol than an exception. You see that kind of blight all over the country. I think the interesting comparison is Windsor. Same economic challenges that sank Detroit, and it's a place that's struggling, but it's still functional and a nice place to raise kids, etc.

[Tom W]

Honestly the New Berlin model is attainable. Detroit is a low-cost destination for artists and others who value large, old structures they can live in and/or convert to work spaces, etc. In the creative/artisanal economy, Detroit has for several years been punching far above its weight.

There's a perfectly logical "excuse" for Berlin's decimation. Detroit has pretty much driven (no pun intended) itself to it's status of being America's 3rd World City.

The artists and other Bohemians are interesting, but the city needs to have neighborhoods that are functional- without being propped up by the philanthropy of the Illitches, Gilberts etc or in spite of the government that the citizens KEEP voting in.

But, I certainly hope that you're right about that because I just happen to live near a couple of the major through ways out of the city. Based on what's been coming my way, I'm not exactly optimistic.

[hack]

Could be. We do know that governance in Germany improved, but that was more on the foreign policy side. I don't have very granular knowledge of how domestic policies have evolved.

(Srsly, counting on good governance is a hope-is-not-a-plan sort of approach. Either you're favored by current economic conditions or your not, IMO. In Detroit's position, maybe really embracing the DIY/artisanal thing can create those kinds of neighborhoods.)

[*JD*]

Honestly the New Berlin model is attainable. Detroit is a low-cost destination for artists and others who value large, old structures they can live in and/or convert to work spaces, etc. In the creative/artisanal economy, Detroit has for several years been punching far above its weight.

I've been thinking about it for the last year or so. I really want a studio space in my next place. I wish I'd been doing photography when I lived in a 10,000 square ft. loft in downtown LA back in '06.

[Da Geezer]

The whole SE side of the state should be cut off and floated down the river to Lake Erie with the rest of the fecal matter. For west-staters, it is like having Hitler as an uncle: when you say you are from MI, they think Detroit. Here is the real Michigan:

http://www.movoto.com/blog/opinions/grand-rapids-epic/

[The Oracle]

Grand Rapids was a shithole not too long ago too.

[*JD*]

The whole SE side of the state should be cut off and floated down the river to Lake Erie with the rest of the fecal matter. For west-staters, it is like having Hitler as an uncle: when you say you are from MI, they think Detroit. Here is the real Michigan:

http://www.movoto.com/blog/opinions/grand-rapids-epic/

Grand Rapids has sand dunes? Somehow, I missed that.

p.s.- Ann Arbor is in SE Michigan. I think you may have been joking but I'm not 100% sure of that.

[hack]

I've seen many of those very same things in several places on the west side of the state. what I haven't seen over there is the rich history, the world class cultural offerings, the architectural treasures, or the sense of renewal. Or whether there's a Gilbert or some other hometown benefactor who wants to throw money is it.

[Da Geezer]

Well, Hack, about 5 years ago, someone said something similar, trying to make the point that GR doesn't have the benefactors on the level of Dan Gilbert. Also, around the same time an article appeared putting GR in the same class as Flint in a national magazine.

So, the following lip dub was made as a reply. Understand that the persons you see are about one and all millionaires or billionaires (not all of course, but many). The richest person in MI lives in GR (Meijer) and GR has replaced Rochester MN as the best medical destination in the Midwest because of another company ( DeVos and VanAndel). The VanAndel Arena is one of the ten most profitable arenas in the world because of the cultural offerings. THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE PRIVATELY FINANCED. I've paid taxes all my life to support Detroit's alleged world class cultural offerings, and all I've seen is theft and more theft.

Without saying more, I give you GR's answer to being compared to Flint, starring mostly the very wealthy, yet common, folk of GR:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPjjZCO67WI"]The Grand Rapids LipDub (NEW WORLD RECORD) - YouTube[/ame]

[Ghengis Jon]

Well done! Good choice of song for an extended lipsync vid.

Flint has its own video but it doesn't get much air time as it often gets confused with an ISIS production.

[hodgkal]

Two years ago a group of our friends decided they wanted to see Detroit for themselves so we spent 3 days there, staying at a marvelous B&B located a block from the DIA off Woodward Ave. We were pleasantly surprised to find this neighborhood to seem very safe and prosperous. In fact the Woodward Ave. corridor from Grand Boulevard to downtown is surprisingly prosperous and busy.

We saw many people out walking and small children (mostly white) out and about. This is the area that contains the Art Museum, the Wayne State hospital complex, and many thriving businesses.

We spent most of our time in the downtown area, spending a lot of time in and about the Renaissance Center (now GM headquarters), walking the river front down to the Joe Louis arena, taking the "people mover" and getting off at every stop to look around, dining, and wandering through many of the historic buildings and admiring the beautiful architecture.

Then we went up Woodward Ave. to Grand Blvd. to wander the Fisher Bldg. and other nearby sights. We finished by visiting the Black musical history museum on Woodward, a surprisingly interesting spot where many big names in the musical world emerged.

That's just a sample of our tour but my point is that not all of Detroit is decrepit and dangerous. Of course it would have been foolish to wander the wasteland of most of the rest of the city out to 8 Mile Road.

Downtown appears to be thriving because of huge investments in restoration of the downtown thanks to organizations like the leaders at Quicken Loans. I get the impression a lot of "yuppies" are convinced Detroit is on the way back. We'll see.

Finally, we drove through my childhood neighborhood near Grand River and Southfield and found it to be surprisingly well kept up. The home I grew up in is still well maintained with a neat lawn and essentially all the nearby homes being well kept up. This area, called Grandmont, and the neighboring are of Rosedale Park looks as prosperous as ever.

So IMO all is not lost in Detroit, although much of the area has become a wasteland. Detroit's decline can be attributed to many causes but a major one was the race riots of the 1960s followed by white flight. Also the auto industry lost much of its clout for reasons that have been well analyzed. The city went from a population of 2 million to approximately 700,000 currently. And of course many of the suburbs are thriving. Back in the 1950s Detroit had the third highest level of financial wealth in the nation!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Detroit set itself up for problems earlier than the 60's. Realtors and housing authorities in Detroit and the surrounding suburbs were deeply segregationist and redlined black folks into the least desirable areas. Then in the 50's and 60's the city started doing 'urban renewal', which impacted black neighborhoods a lot more than white ones. When the black folks started looking for new homes, the white people fled.

http://detroitography.com/2014/12/10/detroit-redlining-map-1939/

[lineygoblue]

Coleman Young happened to Detroit. He told white people, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave". They said, "no problem", and left.

And just in case Coleman Young's dream of totally destroying Detroit didn't come to pass, they elected Kwame Kilpatrick. A couple of times.

They're lucky anything at all is still standing.

In fact, if it were not for some very kind hearted wealthy people like Mike Ilitch, there would be no downtown Detroit today.