Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

[froot loops]

Brian Cook has been sycophantic far more often than not. If he likes the coaching hire he will defend them to the hilt no matter. He'll use a blend of crooting and analytics to make the case good times are just around the corner. If doesn't like the coach (Carr) or the hire(Hoke) there is nothing they can do that will escape his criticism. And he will use them for years as bogeyman when his preferred coach fails.

[Rocky Bleier]

Damn, Froot. I have to admit you've been getting smarter the last couple of years - like my dad...

[froot loops]

Haha, I don't know about that. That guy bugs me, he has a lot of minions though.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Brian Cook has been sycophantic far more often than not. If he likes the coaching hire he will defend them to the hilt no matter. He'll use a blend of crooting and analytics to make the case good times are just around the corner. If doesn't like the coach (Carr) or the hire(Hoke) there is nothing they can do that will escape his criticism. And he will use them for years as bogeyman when his preferred coach fails.

I don't think this is fair, Froot.

Are you a casual reader of mgoblog getting fast takes on a speed read or do you really study the M games and Brian's critiques? I can't believe you're the later but I could certainly be wrong.

For an outsider, though, you're post game posts are decent ...... but remember while most of the posters here had doubts about M's ability to beat PSU, you were much more up-beat. You were wrong and I think you're wrong about Brian's most recent post as well. NB: Brian comments in his recent post at hand on M's rivals getting "yuks" out of M's struggle and he states, that's fine for rivals to gloat. I'd put you somewhat in that camp so, Ray's rant sounds good to you. It's not.

I think the post PSU problem for most M fans is that there is not a great deal of balance. Too many posters are either all in or all out or in the post's of M"s Rivals here, not entirely reliable. There's either unwavering support or torches and pitchforks. Rivals fall into a different category when it comes to post game analysis ... the gloat factor - I'd actually say that your optimism for an M victory over PSU was likely driven by your desire to have M hang a loss on PSU making MSU's path to the East crown a bit easier and more likely.

I think Brian's point in his last post was that those among the pitchforks and torches crowd aren't willing to hear about the impact of well founded deficiencies (OL recruiting in 2015, Speight's and Black's injuries, O'Korn's limitations as a back-up) or the historical positives that could be considered as mitigating JH's and his staff's apparent fuck-ups.

Marcus Ray tends to rant when things don't go well because that is his radio personality and when it resonates with the torch and pitch fork crowd or with M's rivals, he's considered to be a worthy critic. By-and-large there are some, and I am among them, that don't consider his post game critiques, esp. when he gets on his rant train, to have great value. JMO.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Too early to say, plus we have no idea how much input Pep has had on the offense or if it's all Drevno. I see so much personnel issues at QB/OL that I can't pin a whole lot on the coaching staff, yet...

JH has run mostly the same offense at Stanford, Michigan and with the 49ers w/ Smith. Agree that Harbaugh's offense seems to have far less margin for error than spread based offenses; too many players need to execute for a play to even gain 5-6 yards.

After Brian's post where he decries the pitch fork and torches crowd and my post above, I wanted to go back and find one of WM's posts. I've always felt his posts are balanced. This is one of his most recent.

He's neither overly sycophantic nor is he ready to pour gas on the tire fire. This is a balanced viewpoint acknowledging the problems but, as well, acknowledging mitigating factors.

[Rocky Bleier]

I think the post PSU problem for most M fans is that there is not a great deal of balance. Too many posters are either all in or all out or in the post's of M"s Rivals here, not entirely reliable. There's either unwavering support or torches and pitchforks.

I think Brian's point in his last post was that those among the pitchforks and torches crowd aren't willing to hear about the impact of well founded deficiencies (OL recruiting in 2015, Speight's and Black's injuries, O'Korn's limitations as a back-up) or the historical positives that could be considered as mitigating JH's and his staff's apparent fuck-ups.

More like the maize and blue colored glasses are coming off. Don't forget where PSU was 3 years ago when Harbaugh took over. Don Brown didn't like it when Gerry Dinardo said his defense was high risk/high reward, but it's plainly true. And if the problem is that PSU had better athletes, which they obviously did, that's a function of recruiting. It's part of the job in college. Can Don Brown recruit? Schiano is kicking ass on the recruiting trail. Partridge can recruit. But can he coach? Jay Harbaugh can recruit. But can he coach? Harbaugh has to shake up his staff. The school is paying out millions to the coordinators without much in the way of return. It's been ten years of excuses.

[hack]

One bad game from the defense and this? Don Brown deserves way, WAY better. He's not going to be perfect.

[hack]

I think Brian's at a point where he has to man up and be professional, or stagnate. The mattress thing was ridiculous. Cover the fucking story. Lamestream media doesn't pull that shit. I thought Brian was very good in covering Hoke -- appreciating the fun of the first year and opening his mind to what might be, and then recognizing that his early instincts were right. He called it a nepotism hire before Hoke even started walking here. He was right. I wasn't around and watching closely during the RichRod years. But as a beat reporter/columnist, if that's what to call him, he's an an inflection point. Man up, be consistent. Write the stories no matter what.

[froot loops]

It's true that I was upbeat about the game, I was fooled. But remember so was Michigan expert Brian Cook. He predicted a loss but a 16-11 slugfest. In fact in his preview he pointed out to avoid the Barkley on McCray matchup. If you were to look at his preview now, he actually identifies some of the issues. He should be part of the pitchfork crowd, that coaching performance was abysmal Saturday night. You can bet if MSU has a team so thoroughly unprepared for PSU, slings and arrows at Dantonio.

A few other things

1. JOK is a Harbaugh transfer.

2. Sure the 2015 class was bad but the next two classes had 58 recruits. Harbaugh has been granted a lot of leeway on what he can recruit and the amount of recruits. 58 recruits over two years

3. If it is based on a bad 2015 recruiting clas, then Harbaugh isn't much different than Hoke.

[Wild Hoss]

How is it that, with M's highly-ranked recruiting classes even predating Harbaugh, that talent can be an issue?

[Jeff Buchanan]

Fair points, Froot .........

I tend to give JH a pass on the OL for these reasons: (1) There were some strange losses by decommitment or all CBs pointing to M that went elsewhere on signing day. It was weird. At one point, Michigan had what looked like an elite offensive line recruiting class coming in -- with the possibility of adding four-star guard Terrance Davis. Davis went to Maryland, Erik Swenson's situation happened and Devery Hamilton signed with Stanford. Hamilton may have been the biggest blow there, as analysts and scouts consistently raved about his projection as a left tackle. (2) Then the Grant Newsome injury occurred.

I don't think the 2016 OL class was terrible. I don't think you can count the 2017 class in this discussion. In 2016, though, M had a chance with Leatherwood and got both Filaga and Ruiz. I don't think you can throw stones at JH's OL recruiting in '16 and '17 by throwing out the total number of recruits in those two classes, #58.

Finally, Hoke was terrible at identifying OL talent. I don't think you can compare his record there with JH's. In the end, Hoke contributed nothing to M's OL. It was terrible under RR and Hoke failed to improve it ...... it's remained pretty much awful.





Either way, Michigan still signed two elite-level prospects in Ben Bredeson and Michael Onwenu.

[Jeff Buchanan]

How is it that, with M's highly-ranked recruiting classes even predating Harbaugh, that talent can be an issue?

Devil's in the details ..... see above.

[paul daugherity]

What exactly does "torches and pitchforks" in this instance mean? I haven't heard anyone say, write, etc., that Harbaugh should be fired. I have heard and seen people question what he is doing, question what the staff is doing, and wanting some answers from him, which I think is fair. It is getting a little much blaming the current problems on the players (or lack thereof) and the previous coaching staff. Other teams with "lesser talent" are doing more, so I think it is very fair to question Harbaugh and what exactly he's doing.

[froot loops]

I think you want to get elite level prospects on the offensive line, but it isn't a necessity, it's the one unit where you can do a lot with a good offensive line coach, a good strength coach and a good walkon program. Lord knows I've never seen an elite level recruit on the OL for my program.

[iam416]

My personal opinion, not that anyone cares, is that there are coaching failures this season ranging from minor to substantial. I include in these failures recruiting misses because those are absolutely on the HC. There are, of course, other causes. And, of course, they are 5-2 soon to be 8-2, so it's not a disaster. However, I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks HARBAUGH!!! hasn't had some missteps this season.

What I'm most interested in is how HARBAUGH!!!! moves forward both this year and next. Are the failures temporary and he's able to redress them? Are they more systemic and require actual change?

After Ohio State somehow beat The Nick, he invited Herman down to Tuscaloosa for a few day to talk about what OSU did to UAT. I think that was the last year UAT ran a pure power manball offense. They still aren't spready, but I doubt they'll ever have another QB that isn't a running threat.