Michigan Football, Team 138, 2017 Season.

[froot loops]

I was thinking about the massive class sizes and yanking offers at the end for another recruit. Hiring prep coaches and relatives of recruits was another thing. Some of this stuff is a little seedy but it's not cheating.

I think the Summer Swarm will be looked on as a huuuuge nothing burger. Sure the coaches in the South complained, but it didn't accomplish much as far as I could tell. Maybe if Harbaugh! had 10 summers of Summer Swarms then maybe it would have cemented him as a Recruiting god. It was a novelty and that is about it.

[AlabamAlum]

I was thinking about the massive class sizes and yanking offers at the end for another recruit. Hiring prep coaches and relatives of recruits was another thing. Some of this stuff is a little seedy but it's not cheating.

I think the Summer Swarm will be looked on as a huuuuge nothing burger. Sure the coaches in the South complained, but it didn't accomplish much as far as I could tell. Maybe if Harbaugh! had 10 summers of Summer Swarms then maybe it would have cemented him as a Recruiting god. It was a novelty and that is about it.

Agreed. It's a nothing-burger that's ended (again).

[hack]

I think ultimately where you sit determines where you stand on this stuff. Michigan is one of few schools that does not act on the knowledge that the rewards outweigh the risks, which is how it comes to pass that systemic academic fraud goes unpunished at one school and too much stretching becomes an actual and real violation at Michigan because part of the culture in the athletic department is to be a bit of a rube about the rules, instead of impeding an investigation.

But when the Tressell stuff came out all sorts of anecdotes emerged in Ann Arbor about locals who would be more than happy to lavish illegal benefits on players but were foiled by the compliance department. There was a story on mgoblog about a mechanic who was forced to invoice a player for repairs after a compliance check and then after another compliance check forced to actually collect on the invoice. I lived there at the time and heard a whole bunch more anecdotes to that end.

Obviously there's no data, so anecdoctes will have to suffice, but when I speak of Chris Webber still persona-non-grata 25 years later in the entire city, vis-a-vis Tressell riding the shoulders of his ex-players a year later in Ohio Stadium, I am speaking of real and genuine cultural differences. OSU fans or Bama fans or whomever have every reason to ignore these differences, and Michigan fans are incentivized to accentuate them.

[iam416]

It's very difficult to look in the mirror and own your failures. Kudos for Buchanan for keeping things on track.

[Hannibal]

I don't care about his satellite camps - whether they are in Rome Georgia or Rome Italy. I don't think they're proven to be successful. The second they are, Saban will be doing them.

Probably not -- he doesn't need them. Interregional satellite camps have the potential to benefit Midwestern schools because of the country's talent distribution.

I think ultimately where you sit determines where you stand on this stuff. Michigan is one of few schools that does not act on the knowledge that the rewards outweigh the risks, which is how it comes to pass that systemic academic fraud goes unpunished at one school and too much stretching becomes an actual and real violation at Michigan because part of the culture in the athletic department is to be a bit of a rube about the rules, instead of impeding an investigation.

But when the Tressell stuff came out all sorts of anecdotes emerged in Ann Arbor about locals who would be more than happy to lavish illegal benefits on players but were foiled by the compliance department. There was a story on mgoblog about a mechanic who was forced to invoice a player for repairs after a compliance check and then after another compliance check forced to actually collect on the invoice. I lived there at the time and heard a whole bunch more anecdotes to that end.

Obviously there's no data, so anecdoctes will have to suffice, but when I speak of Chris Webber still persona-non-grata 25 years later in the entire city, vis-a-vis Tressell riding the shoulders of his ex-players a year later in Ohio Stadium, I am speaking of real and genuine cultural differences. OSU fans or Bama fans or whomever have every reason to ignore these differences, and Michigan fans are incentivized to accentuate them.

Well said. At Michigan, we have made the catastrophic mistake of taking the concept of amateurism seriously. At least from a fan standpoint. However, the lack of institutional punishment for Miami, Auburn, Oregon, OSU, and now UNC (at least lack of punishment that comes anywhere close to acting as an effective deterrent) has really opened my eyes. I have conspicuously made the prediction here the Ole Miss will receive institutional punishment that is nowhere near the competitive advantage that they gained by snagging recruits like Nkemdiche and Treadwell. Following the rules is for suckers. FWIW, Harbaugh looks to me like a "letter of the law" instead of a "spirit of the law" guy, which I like. The shady hiring of recruits' relatives is an example.

Regarding RichRod's "cheating" -- we gave back the (nonexistent) competitive advantage that we gained from our blatant extra 15 minutes a day of stretching at a 2 to 1 ratio. That is a stark contrast to what every other program has done -- which is to just fire the guy in charge and then insist that the problem is totally taken care of. The entire Stretchgate investigation was also sparked by one of the most intellectually dishonest pieces of journalism ever written -- one that accused the program of cheating by doubling the amount of hours that we practiced and worked out. That would be like somebody accusing you of selling narcotics out of your home, and then when the police raid your house they find that there are no drugs but you don't have the tags on the mattresses.

[hack]

I agree about pushing it with class sizes and processing people out of the class. Cheating evolves. New ways and forms. The gap can't continue to widen, and if Harbaugh can find ways to keep it from widening faster, without breaking the rules, then he should.

[AlabamAlum]

I think ultimately where you sit determines where you stand on this stuff. Michigan is one of few schools that does not act on the knowledge that the rewards outweigh the risks, which is how it comes to pass that systemic academic fraud goes unpunished at one school and too much stretching becomes an actual and real violation at Michigan because part of the culture in the athletic department is to be a bit of a rube about the rules, instead of impeding an investigation.

But when the Tressell stuff came out all sorts of anecdotes emerged in Ann Arbor about locals who would be more than happy to lavish illegal benefits on players but were foiled by the compliance department. There was a story on mgoblog about a mechanic who was forced to invoice a player for repairs after a compliance check and then after another compliance check forced to actually collect on the invoice. I lived there at the time and heard a whole bunch more anecdotes to that end.

Obviously there's no data, so anecdoctes will have to suffice, but when I speak of Chris Webber still persona-non-grata 25 years later in the entire city, vis-a-vis Tressell riding the shoulders of his ex-players a year later in Ohio Stadium, I am speaking of real and genuine cultural differences. OSU fans or Bama fans or whomever have every reason to ignore these differences, and Michigan fans are incentivized to accentuate them.

Too much stretching. lmao. Great stuff.

[hack]

It's very difficult to look in the mirror and own your failures. Kudos for Buchanan for keeping things on track.

I think we're experts here in this forum. It's been a decade of shitty football, and many, many opportunities to confront reality. Hanni puts forth a great argument for cheating like the rest of them. I LOVE stories about the hubris and the financial engineering from administration, and all the Dave Brandon shit. We here know how to talk about our problems.

[hack]

Too much stretching. lmao. Great stuff.

Again, where you sit is where you stand.

[iam416]

I enjoy the excuses. It means M is losing. Been hearing them for over 10 years.

[hack]

We've got one clean title in our lifetimes. Which is more than fans of any other team on this board.

[iam416]

Ah, the classics. Hack is on a roll.

[AlabamAlum]

lmao.

Literally laughed out loud.

[iam416]

It's one of my favorite bits he does.

[AlabamAlum]

No doubt.