MSU thread (in the Lions Forum)

[NewOrleansLion]

That was an appropriate end to the season - top 32. Hoggard was a major disappointment. I'd expect the offense to be more dynamic with Fears and Holloman running it.

On to football. I'm excited to see this reboot. I also find it easier to be a fan with Smith at the helm. I'd say Tucker rubbed me the wrong way, but he did that to himself.

[froot loops]

On the first game you saw all the hallmarks of an Izzo coached team in the tournament. A well prepared team freed from the shackles of Big Ten play that can steamroll a team with a similar talent level. In the second game we saw the hallmarks of an Izzo coached team has run up against frequently. When the talent level is not close, all the preparedness doesn't get you more than the first 10 minutes. The talent level of the Spartans has not been up to snuff really since that 2009 runner-up team. They have gotten to final fours on some magical runs since then, but it seems the ceiling is getting to the final four.

Izzo said he's going to get back to having a deep run or die trying. Unfortunately, he has been saying something similar for 4 seasons. This year he has openly complained about analytics and the transfer portal. I'm not sure how you can change being that stubborn. He's earned the right to try, but I'm not holding my breath

I attended State during Jud's final years. I lived across the hall from Respert and Pig Miller. Eric Snow was also lived in the dorm. Back then Izzo was already known as ball busting assistant that was powering the program even before Jud publicly annointed him successor. He was bringing in the talent. Jud delayed his retirement by one year and it hurt recruiting. I remember hearing from people who worked in the AD office that Izzo was upset about that. This last few years reminds me of those Jud years. I don't see a young dynamic Izzo type on the staff. It is kind of an old boy network that we saw with Dantonio at the end

[NewOrleansLion]

I don’t know anything about incoming freshmen, but Akins, Carr, Booker, Holloman, Fears…that’s a lot of talent.

I graduated in ‘89, but stayed in E.L. doing the long-haired rock band thing until ‘94, so it sounds like we had some crossover there, froot.

[froot loops]

How many of those players do you see playing in the NBA? I see Booker as an potential NBA talent, maybe Akins. The other guys might be eventually progress into a good college player by their senior year, but that won't be next year. It would be one thing if some of those guys were the main contributors and were coming back, but the two best guys this year were clearly Hall and Walker.

The team of 2000 that won the tournament had 4 NBA players (3 longtime) plus a couple stalwarts that played pro overseas for over a decade. I hope your right on those players, but I was unimpressed. They could be better if Tom Izzo uses the portal he hates to find players to augment those pieces. I think it's a necessity to use to compete nowadays.

[Mainevent]

Mainevent is getting treated to a huge upset in the making.

Hell yeah, great set of games in Pittsburgh. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced anything in person quite like those two Oakland games where the entire crowd was just so focused on a single player. The anticipation for the next Jack Gohlke shot was crazy. The build up of “ooohhhhh” as he came hard off a screen and the eruption if he hit the shot or the collective “awwwww” if he missed. True March Madness shit right there.

[NewOrleansLion]

Walker wasn’t noticeably better than last year. Hall improved, but he’s no star, either.

I think Coen Carr has the makeup of a guy who will take a huge jump next year. Akins will be key. He could be a superstar next year. If he takes that next step, and he supposedly has the work ethic to make that happen, they’ll be pretty damn good next year.

Main, I’d guess that has to go as one of the best sporting events you’ve ever attended. To witness a player to be in that kind of zone would be so cool.

[Mainevent]

Can we get Edey v Clingan in the championship game? It’s what we deserve.

[chemiclord]

Can we get Edey v Clingan in the championship game? It’s what we deserve.

What, refs choking on their whistles as the two murder each other on the court?

I loathe players like Edey and the bullshit he gets away with. "Oh, he's just so big and strong! It's so hard to officiate players like him!" Bullshit. It's perfectly easy to officiate players like him. CALL THE FUCKING CONTACT! If he's got someone in a fucking headlock, it's a FUCKING FOUL! If he runs someone over in the paint, IT'S A FUCKING FOUL!

It's only hard because the refs want it to be. They don't want to be booed because they whistled him three times in the half because he was flailing his arms like he's trying to flag down traffic after he drove his car into an overpass stanchion, and practicing for his fucking MMA career post college ball.

...

Can you tell I have thoughts on this?

[Mainevent]

Ah, you’re one of those . . .

[DanO]

What, refs choking on their whistles as the two murder each other on the court?

I loathe players like Edey and the bullshit he gets away with. "Oh, he's just so big and strong! It's so hard to officiate players like him!" Bullshit. It's perfectly easy to officiate players like him. CALL THE FUCKING CONTACT! If he's got someone in a fucking headlock, it's a FUCKING FOUL! If he runs someone over in the paint, IT'S A FUCKING FOUL!

It's only hard because the refs want it to be. They don't want to be booed because they whistled him three times in the half because he was flailing his arms like he's trying to flag down traffic after he drove his car into an overpass stanchion, and practicing for his fucking MMA career post college ball.

...

Can you tell I have thoughts on this?

LOL, It's not just Edey but I agree, Call it for everyone..

[chemiclord]

Ah, you’re one of those . . .

I'm one of those that thinks that if you actually called contact when it happens that'd solve a lot of supposed "problems" in the game, yes. A big part of the reason why flopping and embellishment happen is because refs aren't calling the contact they should be calling. It shouldn't fucking matter how hard you got hacked on the arm as you went up to shoot. The hack itself should be a foul. It shouldn't matter how hard you got pushed off your spot on the floor by an offensive player backing into you. Being pushed off your spot should be the foul.

And I'm not terribly sympathetic to the argument that "then there'd be a hundred fouls a game!" So be it. Players would figure it out quickly enough, and in the end you'd have a more free flowing game that would allow for skill to flourish.

[NewOrleansLion]

Hard to find any articles on the Spartans that’s not behind a paywall, but here’s one. And it’s really good:

Couch: After a decade of offensive line struggles, perhaps Jim Michalczik is the hero MSU needs


It’s been close to a decade since Michigan State’s offensive line last pushed around a quality opponent. Nine years since Jack Allen and Jack Conklin and Co. mauled the Buckeyes in Columbus. Ten seasons since the Spartans had a 1,000-yard rusher not named Kenneth Walker. Seven years since a Walker-less MSU team averaged at least 4 yards per carry.

MSU’s record — minus Walker — since the last time the Spartans hit that crest of mediocrity: 25-32 overall and 16-27 in Big Ten play.

There have been a lot of reasons for MSU’s slide from college football relevance since the middle of the last decade. None more obvious and frustrating than a decline in offensive line play. Somehow the Spartans haven’t been able to get that fixed.

Next up with the assignment: New MSU head coach Jonathan Smith, offensive coordinator Brian Lindgren and offensive line coach and run game coordinator Jim Michalczik, who, together, haven’t coached a ground game that’s averaged less than 4.6 yards per carry, let alone 4 yards per carry, since their first year at Oregon State in 2018.

“I feel like our offense goes as our offensive line goes,” Lindgren said.

He obviously sees the correlation.

The question is, where can this MSU offensive line go? Can it be adequate? Grow into being a bully? Make the tough yards not seem as impossible as they’ve been too often?

“We're gonna find out pretty soon,” Michalczik said Thursday, 15 days before the Spartans’ opener against Florida Atlantic.

If Michalczik turns this offensive line into something and develops that unit into a strength of the program in the years to come, he may not know it now, but fans will build a 40-foot statue of him outside Spartan Stadium. He’ll never pay for a beer in East Lansing again. He will have done what for so long has felt out of reach for MSU's program.

Michalczik strikes the right tone for the job at hand: Unassuming, no bravado, zero promises. No shtick. No hard and fast statistical barometers, either. His linemen will be graded internally, of course. Mostly, though, if it’s working, if they’re good enough …

“We know,” he said.

We will, too. You can see trouble. Often right away.

“There’s no baseline (level we need to be at),” said Michalczik, 58, who spent his life and career out west but whose mother attended MSU. “We’re just going to get as good as we can get.”


The hope that they’re better than we’ve seen in recent years begins with another Oregon State transplant — center Tanner Miller, who spent the past five years with the Beavers, where he was a second-team All-American a year ago.

Players are often the last to realize they or their team aren’t up to the task. But Miller has been part of good lines at Oregon State as that program became formidable.
His take: “I think the camaraderie, like togetherness of a (line) is what separates them, because at this level, everybody's talented. We've got talent just like the next team, but a team that can truly play together and you can call each other out and say, ‘Hey, you were wrong on this play because of this, this and this,' when you do that and you can respond the next play, that's when I think a team can truly be special.

“I think we’re there.”

We’ll see. Miller also said this line compared well to the one he left at Oregon State. Again, we’ll see. At MSU, after the last decade, seeing is believing. No offense to Tanner.

MSU has had years when they've held up well in pass protection, but couldn't run it consistently. And MSU's 2021 ground game wasn't entirely Walker. There is also chance some of MSU's younger linemen — recruits of the previous regime — become part of the solution, evidence that progress was being made up front. We just hadn't seen it yet.
At offensive tackle, three players have separated themselves, Michalczik said — fifth-year senior Brandon Baldwin, third-year sophomore Ashton Lepo and redshirt freshman Stanton Ramil. Holy Cross graduate transfer Luke Newman is a likely option at left guard. Third-year sophomore Kristian Phillips is among those also competing for one of the guard spots.

Michalczik said he’s still trying to figure out his best five and the next five and if there are a No. 6 and 7 who are close enough to the top group to deserve snaps.

“I don’t want to make decisions until I have to,” he said.

At this point, all there is to do is trust in Michalczik and hope he’s the hero MSU fans have been waiting for.

[froot loops]

It's always puzzling how the Spartans have been so bad at offensive like over the years. The program prides itself on tough, hard nose football but always have subpar offensive lines. During the Dantonio glory years they were decent but they were heavily reliant on Jack Conklin and the Allen brothers.

I hope this coach is the answer. Coach Kal was supposed to be as well and the line was atrocious during his time

[chemiclord]

You'd think if there was one thing you'd be able to find in relative abundance in the Midwest, it'd be big dudes that can play on the OL.

[froot loops]

Wisconsin traditionally has had no issue with that, but MSU has floundered at it. It's a hard position to recruit, I don't think the size of the pool of available big guys is all that big, so you have to take taller athletic guys and make them drink shakes at 1 in the morning. The West Coast teams use a lot of Islanders as their cheat code and that's what this coach did at OSU. We'll see how that translates in EL.