U of M thread (in the Lions Forum) :)

[jaadam4]

Well, U-M's preseason is almost over, so we'll see if he continues to look like this against actual competition soon enough.

What about your boy Penix. Does he get a free pass for playing so well against powerhouse Arizona State? 2 INTs and a fumble against a 1-6 team.

[chemiclord]

What about your boy Penix. Does he get a free pass for playing so well against powerhouse Arizona State? 2 INTs and a fumble against a 1-6 team.

What? That he had a shit game? Nope. Dude stunk up the joint last Saturday, and that's gonna hurt his value in the eyes of GMs, especially if it proves to be a trend rather than a blip.

But all this talk about McCarthy also takes a hit if he looks more pedestrian against Penn State, Ohio State, Bowl Opponent. Dude definitely has shown significantly improved pocket presence and throwing ability this year. The question is if that is actual growth, or if he'll revert to his more "run first" dynamic under pressure once he starts facing better than shit competition.

And yes, Sparty was shit competition. Holy hell, are they shit right now. (And Spencer Brown needs to be completely kicked off the team and any scholarships revoked.)

[jaadam4]

Yeah the Spencer Brown thing is a really bad look. Jump on the dude, pancake him even throw punches but that helmet thing was really stupid.

[Niffla]

Disappointed Michigan didn't win by more. Maybe if UM had Stallions for this one, and kept the starters in, they could've won 63-0 instead of 49-0.

[chemiclord]

Apparently, it looks like Ohio State was engaged in the exact same practices discovered in much the same way.

[jaadam4]

I’m not condoning anything but this shit is hilarious to me. I love how the NCAA is going after Big Ten teams while the SEC has been shady as f*ck for decades and somehow the powerhouses in NCAA basketball are clean as a whistle.

Do your job or don’t but be consistent. This all started because Harbaugh bought a kid a hamburger. Instead of telling the NCAA to eat a bag of dicks and go away like everyone else they complied and even agreed on a suspension. But they couldn’t let Harbaugh take the suspension without him admitting guilt.

It’s like when women catch their guy checking out another chick. They won’t let up until he confesses guilt then it’s another fight in itself. Once Harbaugh refused to confess they pulled away and made the NCAA upset. Cry me a river.

[froot loops]

The NCAA was approached by an outside firm investigating Michigan for some reason. They couldn't very well do the Seargent Schultz.

[dsred]

Found this link of secret video captured in the U of M Tactical Office:

[chemiclord]

I so quickly got to the point where I was no longer amused at poking fun at Wolvy and just want to know when the findings are conclusively published and what the punishment will be.

That's how tiring and how ridiculous the Internet at large ran with this story.

[LightninBoy]

Can someone help me out here? And this is a sincere question, I have no dog in this ...

Here's how I understand this is breaking down. Please correct each point if in error.

1. Stealing signs is not against the rules
2. Reviewing game film is not against the rules
3. Scouting teams (sending staff to other team's games) is against the rules

Given all the above is true (and I'm not sure it is, this is just what I've heard), why is the emphasis on the sign stealing? Shouldn't the emphasis be on what is actually not allowed - which is sending staff to games to scout teams?

Possible reason for the emphasis on the sign stealing ...
1. Its a juicier story, appeals to fairness and game integrity, even if it technically isn't against the rules
2. Lots of teams scout other teams (the no scouting rule is old and considered out of data given the ubiquity of video), so emphasizing that would implicate many programs
3. All of the above

What am I missing?

[Mainevent]

Because the biggest part of in-person scouting involved stealing signs, which isn’t illegal - unless you are doing it in person and/or recording the other team. That’s literally the only real advantage you get being at the game. Anything else can come from game tape.

[jaadam4]

I can't wait to see who the person that hired the independent firm that took everything to the NCAA. Will this be the new norm? Teams paying PI's and firms to investigate other schools then run to the NCAA with findings? This is going to be a shitshow as the media loves this.

[LightninBoy]

Because the biggest part of in-person scouting involved stealing signs, which isn’t illegal - unless you are doing it in person and/or recording the other team. That’s literally the only real advantage you get being at the game. Anything else can come from game tape.

Thank you. Still doesn't make sense from a following the letter of the law perspective. If the rule is "Sending scouts to other team's games is not allowed". How is *what* the scouts did while violating that rule more relevant than breaking the rule itself? Particularly when that "what" is technically allowed. How is it relevant whether or not breaking the rule created a competitive advantage? If scouts are sent, but they are ineffective and don't create an advantage, is that ok? I would hope not.

But I can use what you said to make a discretionary enforcement argument ...

If I steel man the NCAA narrative so far, the argument would be that in-person scouting of other games is not allowed, but typically the advantage is minimal so the rule has not been enforced. Michigan took advantage of this lack of enforcement and figured out a way to make in-person scouting useful by stealing signs. The frequency in which Michigan broke this rule and the sign steeling it enabled uniquely damages the integrity of the sport, so Michigan should uniquely face consequence for their rule violation.

If I steel man the Michigan argument, it would be that the only rule they violated was the in person scouting rule, which is common across the league* because it hasn't been enforced for years. The NCAA singling out Michigan, when other programs also violate this rule, is just punishment for being more effective. Or worse, it is punishment for recent disagreements between the NCAA and Michigan.

Oh yeah and ... college sports is cesspool.

* I'm totally assuming that inperson scouting is fairly common based on the "everybody does it" claims and other more neutral parties discussing the "no scouting rule" and its history.

[LightninBoy]

I can't wait to see who the person that hired the independent firm that took everything to the NCAA. Will this be the new norm? Teams paying PI's and firms to investigate other schools then run to the NCAA with findings? This is going to be a shitshow as the media loves this.

College sports is a cesspool.

[NewOrleansLion]

Given all the above is true (and I'm not sure it is, this is just what I've heard), why is the emphasis on the sign stealing? Shouldn't the emphasis be on what is actually not allowed - which is sending staff to games to scout teams?

I’ve been wondering about this, too. I’m guessing the tools that are legally available to try to steal signs - TV and coach’s film - don’t show the signals often enough to be effective.