Florida 41, Michigan 15

[Jeff Buchanan]

If you want a new football coach at M, you'l need to see to it that there's a massive culture change with new priorities for football and the selection of student athletes that play for M. The ones in place, the one's Harbaugh champions, aren't going to compete with programs that have different values and different priorities. Like I've said, I'm not putting other programs down. Different strokes for different folks.

[hack]

You trust Manuel to run a coaching search? More importantly, you trust the regents, team alumnae, and big donors to let it happen the way it should?

I'm not there yet, and lack of faith in the institutional process is going to make it hard for me to get there.

[iam416]

[UMStan White]

Well they turned you down so that says something :-)

[iam416]

Wait, I applied to M? My favorite "academic" story ever is that somehow I managed to do so well on my LSAT that a number of law schools waived application fees for me. And that included M. And I still didn't apply! WoooOOooOT! I did, however, get rejected by Columbia and Harvard and waitlisted at Chicago. Thank fucking god. My generally downward career path wouldn't have changed a lick for the extra $200,000!

[THE_WIZARD_]

HARBAUGH!!!!! 27 Gay Turds 16

[UMStan White]

Heh (Talent's post) I hear yah. My niece would have been a junior had she gone to MSU. Instead she went to Yale where none of her advanced placement and college courses transferred, resulting in a $70,000 per year bill for my brother

[THE_WIZARD_]

Good heavens Lovey....a YALE WOMAN!

[Jeff Buchanan]

talent..... I don't think anyone who is offering opinions here on the kinds of things that hold M back from landing talented HS players is talking about academic standards at M being higher than those at the programs in this discussion. M does what other top programs do. They make the path to getting a degree at M for student athletes with less than optimal HS educations and who otherwise might not survive the academic rigor of the institution possible. I recognize that from a compliance standpoint academic assistance for football players can't be any different than they are for all students so, there's a mostly level playing field here anyway. That, however, does not mean that all academic assistance programs for athletes are equal across all CFB programs or have the same priorities for getting degrees for football players.

The things I'm talking about that hold M back are the baked in culture of Michigan athletics. Not everyone fits into it and therefore, not everyone who might want to get a football scholarship offer at M gets one. I don't think fans, in general, understand why 5*s don't just land on M's football doorstep to become stars and advance the program's championship potential. Some of it may be academics but that's overblown IMO. Most of it revolves around character and integrity issues that Jim Harbaugh champions and he and his staff apply in decisions about pursuing a particular HS kid and making an offer

Obviously there's more (recruiting resources are not infinite - you have to chose your battles) but this kind of thing is a player in the recruiting process that might exclude some very talented HS players with a ton of NFL potential. I think the other programs in this discussion do the same thing. They want a fit, they know which recruits are likely to actually suit up and who isn't. The difference is, as I've said elsewhere, priorities. I do believe there is a system of handlers, outside CFB programs themselves, that advise HS kids and their parents with NFL potential. The priorities this system establishes, I think, are mostly contrary to those of Harbaugh and Michigan. Others can disagree. I could be wrong but I don't think I am on this one. It's real. It's there.

Schembechler was famous for ignoring talented HS players who's character didn't seem to comport with what he was looking for. That's where it started or at least when I became aware of it and see it persist today. Harbaugh is an extension of that man with regard to selecting players to recruit. Bo also notoriously hated recruiting and especially dealing with the handlers of that day. Frankly, the M football culture is a subset of the university's and one that Hack and I would probably agree can be deleterious to it (shooting the U in the foot sorts of things that are a matter of record). Having said that, I don't think Michigan would have employed Jim Tressel as a head football coach or ufm or Nick Saban for that matter. While they are very good football coaches, if that's measured by their win percentages, they'd be poor fits at M just like Rich Rodiguez was and who was famously undermined from within because of it. Is that a good or a bad thing? Depends on one's priorities and willingness to accept or reject the impact of Michigan's culture, as I've treid to describe it, on the football program.

What is certain in my opinion is that M isn't going to compete on the football field on a consistent basis with the programs were talking about. That is because of the cultural reality of Michigan described above and elsewhere.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Cliff Notes please.

[hack]

I don't think Michigan would have employed Jim Tressel as a head football coach or ufm or Nick Saban for that matter. While they are very good football coaches, if that's measured by their win percentages, they'd be poor fits at M just like Rich Rodiguez was and who was famously undermined from within because of it.

Michigan wants to have its cake and eat it too, and, oddly enough is sometimes even in a position to pull that off. I'll take that over being realistic about things and engaging in that race to the bottom. I wish we didn't have to put up with the Michigan Hubris people, but if we were to say that the alums and fan base hold the university accountable, it would be for its bad behavior and not for its good behavior. Maybe those two things are correlated. You take the good with the bad, I guess.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Who asked ya?

[iam416]

I don't think anyone who is offering opinions here on the kinds of things that hold M back from landing talented HS players is talking about academic standards at M being higher than those at the programs in this discussion. M does what other top programs do. They make the path to getting a degree at M for student athletes with less than optimal HS educations and who otherwise might not survive the academic rigor of the institution possible

It kinda sounded like you were asserting different academic standards for football players vis-a-vis other name brand programs, but if you're not then you're not.

The things I'm talking about that hold M back are the baked in culture of Michigan athletics. Not everyone fits into it and therefore, not everyone who might want to get a football scholarship offer at M gets one. I don't think fans, in general, understand why 5*s don't just land on M's football doorstep to become stars and advance the program's championship potential. Some of it may be academics but that's overblown IMO. Most of it revolves around character and integrity issues that Jim Harbaugh champions and he and his staff apply in decisions about pursuing a particular HS kid and making an offer

Yeah, so I'd like to know which kids M is passing on because of character or lack of fit. I mean, they offered virtually every 5* kid for this class and 16 of 23 Alabama 4* or higher commits and 10 of 12 OSU 4* or higher commits as part of their approximately 200! offers: https://247sports.com/college/michig...otball/Offers/. HARBAUGH!!!! is out there recruiting the same kids as OSU and Alabama and Georgia, but he ain't getting as many. That's the cold, hard truth. It has little to nothing to do with some sort of artificial barrier placed around the program by the institution.

[iam416]

AA beat me to it, I guess. I mean, this is exactly it. If you're gonna say that M's institution barriers are inhibiting recruiting, then tell me some kids M had a legit shot at that they just couldn't offer.

HARBAUGH!!! is out there going for 5* players like everyone else. And he's getting a few -- which is, btw, pretty good.

[iam416]

Yeah, I was taking the time to estimate how many UAT and OSU commits M offered. So, I was delayed a little bit. I appreciate that your half-assery beat me to the punch, though.