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MICHIGAN MEN'S BASKETBALL- '20-'21: Building a New Identity (If the season happens)

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  • Yeah a lot of folks seem to think it's a foregone conclusion that Franz is gone. And they may very well be right. But...for some reason I still think it's possible that he returns. Time will tell. But I don't think it's the foregone conclusion that people think it is.
    AAL: Titus Young

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    • As far as last night -- it sucked, of course, but hey it's never easy when the season comes to an abrupt end like that.

      But man this program is going to be an absolute force for years to come. There's so much to look forward to, and really this just feels like the tip of the iceberg.
      AAL: Titus Young

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      • Originally posted by Cody_Russell View Post



        I like to compare Franz to Stauskas.
        Stauskas was much better at M when compared to Franz. Stauskas is a bust. Be careful NBA...
        While I definitely hear you as far as Franz going to the NBA right now -- I don't think he's nowhere near ready from an offensive standpoint for the NBA, but I think that Franz and Stauskas are very different players. I think Franz probably does everything better across the board than Stauskas with the exception of shooting, where Stauskas was of course light years ahead of Franz.
        AAL: Titus Young

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        • The one thing we can take away from this season is something Niffla said above. I agree that this is just the beginning for this program. Howard has proven he can recruit, and he can coach on game days. He's got the attention of top basketball players not just in the US, but in Europe as well. He's going to get his players. The program is on the upswing, and to quote a friend of mine from a few years back, this may be the beginning of a golden age of Michigan Basketball. If things don't change in the Football department, Basketball may surpass them as the top sport at the school. That's not going to happen immediately, but this could be the start. Shoot, even the Women's team made it to the Elite Eight this year. Basketball is in great shape at U-M.

          Now if we can get the gut-wrenchingly awful Football season out of the way so Basketball season can begin again.
          The future is shaped by your dreams, so stop wasting time and go to sleep

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          • Big time players don't think like Lineygoblie does. They don't say to themselves, "I probably won't play in season 1, so I might as well play here at Michigan." Every big time athlete has a giant ego and they think they are going to play." That's the way it should be.

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            • Originally posted by lineygoblue View Post
              to quote a friend of mine from a few years back, this may be the beginning of a golden age of Michigan Basketball.
              I agree with him.

              My expectation is for Coach Howard to continue to recruit at a very, very high level.

              He took a roster that was largely looked at this season as an afterthought. Picked to finish as a middle of the pack Big Ten team. Prior to this season had you told anyone that they would be a #1 seed going into the NCAA tournament, with this roster, people would've laughed you out of the building and said you were on crack. But they were within a hair, even after a putrid performance (offensively anyway) of reaching the Final Four. And without their undisputed senior leader and captain (not to mention excellent player) to boot.

              Now imagine what they can do with top flight talent coming to AA on a regular basis. I mean it's not like we had scrubs before or something but it's pretty clear that Juwan has taken recruiting to an entirely different level. And I am fully confident that he will get his recruits to buy in to his vision.

              I typically don't get this excited about any of the teams I root for in regards to their futures -- more often than not I'm reserved on stuff like this but I think the seeds are in place here for something special. Sky is the limit.
              AAL: Titus Young

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              • Its a program on the upswing. Going back a few years, Tommy Amaker, while not an ideal coach, at least brought some much needed stability to the program, and returned a sense of integrity which had departed due to the Martin affair. Then John Beilein came along, and actually made the team competitive again. Multiple sweet sixteen appearances, at least one Big Ten tournament title, and a NC Final appearance. Now, Juwan Howard is boosting the recruiting to a new level. Something we haven't seen since the Frieder/Fisher years. And I have no doubt that Howard will keep the bad stuff out of the program. He's not a cheater.

                Meanwhile, over at Schembechler hall, the HC has been given an extension after a numbingly inept 2-4 season, and is the laughingstock of Ohio, and just about every other state in the Big Ten footprint. The football program continues its 2 decade long slide, with no end in sight.

                So, I'm glad to see Basketball making the move its making. I think we're going to have a lot of fun watching Michigan basketball in 2021-2. And for many seasons after that.
                The future is shaped by your dreams, so stop wasting time and go to sleep

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                • I think that Howard will have great years alternating with meh years. With hopefully at least one "win it all" year to cement his legacy.

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                  • Originally posted by lineygoblue View Post
                    Then John Beilein came along, and actually made the team competitive again. Multiple sweet sixteen appearances, at least one Big Ten tournament title, and a NC Final appearance. Now, Juwan Howard is boosting the recruiting to a new level. Something we haven't seen since the Frieder/Fisher years.
                    Beilein's teams actually won two regular season Big Ten titles, won back-to-back tournament titles, and had two national championship game appearances to go along with an Elite 8. He turned me into a banner addict. Banner, banner, always banner! It's unfortunate we'll only hang one next year but such is life.

                    Great point about Juwan's recruiting. He took over a very good program but one that never had elite level recruiting. Beilein's high water mark was the 2012 class with GRIII, McGary, Stauskus, and Levert. That's a hell of a class and it was only ranked 8th! A typical Beilein class was ranked in the 30s and 40s nationally. Juwan's first class was #14 and has the #1 class coming in next year. Lots to be excited about.

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                    • Originally posted by Hannibal View Post
                      I think that Howard will have great years alternating with meh years. With hopefully at least one "win it all" year to cement his legacy.
                      That's the Kentucky/Duke model. I'm not totally "in" with that because I think the SCOTUS will rule this spring that college athletes can be paid AND that the NBA's agreement with the colleges is a "combination in restraint of trade".

                      That said, I think Howard will be a high-level recruiter in any compensation environment. Overall, I think it will benefit UM to be done with the "one and done" regime.

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                      • The Kentucky/Duke model feels more like to be elite almost every year, with the occasional exception like this year where a bunch of die rolls come up snake-eyes. I don't think that it's realistic to expect us to be there. But it's possible that we could be like Villanova under Jay Wright. I'd be very happy with that.

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                        • I have a feeling that as long as Juwan is here, he's gonna recruit at an elite level. The players seem to love him and he gets a TON of free publicity. We learned this year that he can coach as well as recruit so I really think Michigan can - perhaps even should - be one of the top 3-5 programs in the country for the foreseeable future. The tourney can be a fickle thing but there's no reason the Big Ten Title shouldn't run through Ann Arbor.

                          As disappointing as Tuesday night was, I'm practically counting the days until next season tips off.

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                          • It's very hard to be done with the one and done players if you want to be top tier program. It is part of the formula along with getting transfers. The days of building a program with players that play for 3 seasons are just not realistic especially in the Big Ten meat grinder.

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                            • Howard's model is looking like it's going to be what Self does at Kansas, what Wright does at Nova, and what Bennet dos at UVA -- build your program with 2-3 recruits at the 40-150 level, and add one-and-done types to that. So it's not the Kentucky or Duke model. Is it going to work? Is it going to work in an era of increased transfers? Dunno, but that won't be a problem only Howard has. It'll be intresting to see if Johns, Zeb or Williams transfer. The latter I think is least likely to do so, and will be the kind of four-year system player you really need and love to have. He's a mediocre three-point shot away from being really good, especially since he and HD have that high-school AAU connection and really play so well together. Williams is an elite post feeder and cuts beautifully around a C.

                              Also, let's thank Franz for two wonderful years and wish him the best. He's an ideal candidate to get to the NBA and whatever happened last game, in the previous one he still went toe-to-toe with another lottery-level swingman and won that battle decisively. He's ready for the NBA and coming back would be an incredible gift to Michigan and an incredible risk to Franz. Be happy for the guy and appreciative that when he visited campus there was no actual head coach of the program.

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                              • Isiah Livers had surgery today to repair the fracture in his foot. The post-surgery report said he will be out of action "at least" six months. This has immediately spurred rumors that he might return to Michigan for another season, seeing that he will miss the pre-draft workouts, and the draft itself, and not be able to even begin practicing until October at the earliest. Even though Livers is a senior, he has a "covid year" should he decide to use it.

                                It may just be some Michigan fan wishful thinking. Some NBA team may take a chance on him even though he's laid up.

                                I'm not up to date on where he was projected in the draft, should he have been fully healthy.
                                The future is shaped by your dreams, so stop wasting time and go to sleep

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