Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

The argument to arm teaches, increase the use of resource offices and harden HSs seems to run counter to 2nd A advocates because it is doing exactly what they fear the most ..... an increasingly armed state apparatus.

[iam416]

Arming teachers is just silly.

At the schools where they have an actual real, legitimate threat of gun violence, they have metal detectors and guards. That's quite the expenditure, but for some schools the threat is real enough to make it worthwhile.

Seeing as how you're not taking 300 million guns out of circulation nor stopping criminals from getting guns (a War on Guns! would go about as well as our War on Drugs!), if you really want to stop school shootings this would an effective approach, at least of areas inside the school.

That said, the shooters can still wait outside. Or go to other public places.

The reality that no one probably wants to accept is that these are going to continue a limited, random-type pace and there really isn't any law, action or otherwise that's going to change it. And if they actually pass some of these things -- whether it's arm teaches or ban AR15s, they'll still happen and the reaction won't be, "welp, maybe we can't do much about them" -- the reaction will be "we didn't arm and train the teachers well enough! or we didn't ban enough guns!

[AlabamAlum]

An Oral History of "The Wire's" 5-minute 'fuck scene':

http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/the-wire-oral-history-fuck-scene.html

For fans of the show, the above link will be worthwhile if for nothing else to re-watch one of the show's most creative bits of writing and acting.

[iam416]

Great find, AA. There are better scenes, but watching that scene was the first time I knew I was watching greatness.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Arming teachers is just silly.

At the schools where they have an actual real, legitimate threat of gun violence, they have metal detectors and guards. That's quite the expenditure, but for some schools the threat is real enough to make it worthwhile.

Seeing as how you're not taking 300 million guns out of circulation nor stopping criminals from getting guns (a War on Guns! would go about as well as our War on Drugs!), if you really want to stop school shootings this would an effective approach, at least of areas inside the school.

That said, the shooters can still wait outside. Or go to other public places.

The reality that no one probably wants to accept is that these are going to continue a limited, random-type pace and there really isn't any law, action or otherwise that's going to change it. And if they actually pass some of these things -- whether it's arm teaches or ban AR15s, they'll still happen and the reaction won't be, "welp, maybe we can't do much about them" -- the reaction will be "we didn't arm and train the teachers well enough! or we didn't ban enough guns!

Agree with what you are saying even though it is rather fatalistic .... although granted, pretty realistic.

What we are going to get in the short-term is poorly thought out feel good fixes. I think you and those on the realistic side of issues with regard to the legislative process (i.e., it's a slog at the Federal and State levels) recognize that any kind of ban on even well circumscribed firearms isn't going to happen.

The gun culture in the US has to change just as the tobacco/smoking culture did. Unfortunately, that may be as big of a pie in the sky thing as changing the law is.

My view, though is that we need to resist the tendency to shrug shoulders. Reasonable dialogue is possible as we've seen here from both sides. I'd think the best place to start is "nibbling" (your term) around the edges of the 2A as has been done with 1A. Where would you suggest such an undertaking begin?

[AlabamAlum]

Great find, AA. There are better scenes, but watching that scene was the first time I knew I was watching greatness.

Yes. The show, all around, was so good. It can spoil you, though. You keep hoping for that next Wire level show. And while HBO does a great job with its series, everything else falls a bit short.

AA's ranking of HBO shows:

1. The Wire
2. Sopranos
3. Game of Thrones
4. Deadwood
5. Boardwalk Empire
6. Rome
7. Curb Your Enthusiasm
8. Treme

[iam416]

Reasonable dialogue is possible as we've seen here from both sides

I guess it's technically possible in isolated instances, but in terms of a larger national dialogue, it's not possible. I think when you see people calling folks who support the 2nd A murderers or "blood on their hands" or whatever AND you see the NRA's preposterous nonsense about the media loving mass shooting or various right-wing notions that school kids are Soros plants, you come to the very quick realization that a rational national dialogue is not happening.

Where would you suggest such an undertaking begin?

I'll tell you what Rs have done on abortion. They can't outlaw it, right. So what they've done in various states is pass a series of regulations that make it very difficult to procure those services -- most of the regs have some sort of facially justifiable public health basis, but it's all about making the process really inconvenient. And it works for the Rs because most Americans aren't avidly pro-abortion and very much anti-abortion as the pregnancy goes on.

So, apply it to gun laws. First, we have basic background checks for felons. That's good. Second, implement layered background checks depending on the type of gun you're purchasing. If you want to purchase a handgun (semi-automatic or not), it's a standard background check. If you want to purchase a semi-automatic rifle, then it's a more advanced background check + waiting period. Third, for semi-automatic rifles you can also think about licenses. Fourth, I love David French's "Gun Violence Restraining Order" idea. Fifth, I would consider a "gun license" program. If you want to buy any gun you need to take and pass a gun ownership course -- it doesn't have to long -- it can be a couple hours or something. If you pass and have a "gun license" then you can bypass the more severe semi-automatic rifle background check.

So, the point of all these is to put marginal "pain in the ass" hurdles up that people who want to own guns (and aren't felons) can pass, but there has to be a commitment. It also avoids the word "ban" -- I really think that's a political loser. Now, some of my suggestions may be losers, too, but they offer a legislative path that, IMO, won't require 60 Senate votes to pass. So, if the Ds win Congress and the Presidency as I think they will in 2020, they have a course they can take.

Now, the Ds won't take it because it's a compromise position. They'll try to ban "assault weapons" knowing the Rs won't agree and make it a political issue.

[iam416]

Also, those are just my suggestions, but that's how I'd think about it if I were Ds. In fact, I would start putting those types of regulations in place in blue states. That's what the Rs do with abortion. It's a state issue. And if you're not denying access but merely requiring various things for access, you'll survive Constitutional scrutiny.

The other thing that I think is important to note is enforcement. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- *if* we ramp up enforcement it's going to have the same disparate effect on AAs that the war on drugs has. IF you're concerned with the industrial prison complex then massive, unflinching gun law enforcement is something that you ought to at least have serious reservations about. I'm not overly concerned with it and I definitely have reservations about putting lots of people in jail for possessing a gun illegally. Yet, man, if you're going to pass the laws you gotsta enforce them, right?

My exception for enforcement are straw purchases. 10 years is too much, but jail time is appropriate.

[AlabamAlum]

Just researched it. Alabama's drinkin age was raised to 21 in 1933 with the end of Prohibition.

Damn, AA....or should I call you...Old Scribe?????

Heh. I grew up with the legal age of 18. Never even heard talk of them raising it until I was past 21. It was a MADD initiative putting pressure on pols. Like any of that really made a difference with college age kids. If you were 18, 19, or 20 and at college, I would bet you had little difficulty getting booze.

One of my friend's sons joined the USMC after a bad year at college. He came home from Afghanistan on leave once and a big group of us were watching a game at BWW and he couldn't buy a beer because he hadn't reached 21 yet (he was fairly close - a few months, iirc). It just struck me as fucking ridiculous that his dad had to buy him a beer and act like it was his when the waitress came by.

Or that, two 18-year-olds can get married against their parent's wishes, move out, have a couple of babies, but not buy a Miller Lite.

Does that age group handle booze well? Probably not, but if I produced a study that showed that blacks -statistically- were much worse with alcohol-related issues, would we be okay with restricting their access to alcohol differently than we do with whites?

[crashcourse]

band of brothers 2
GOT 3
sopranos 6
VEEP 7

all you golf junkies--8 of us just got back from scottsdale

4 nights/5 days in a nice condo full kitchen 3 tvs balcony off tatum and 101across street from desert ridge market place--highly recommend keg steakhouse
130 holes of golf including kierland/biltmore/lookout mountain/legacy/ and estrella
860 bucks apiece

[SeattleLionsFan]

Arming teachers is just silly.

At the schools where they have an actual real, legitimate threat of gun violence, they have metal detectors and guards. That's quite the expenditure, but for some schools the threat is real enough to make it worthwhile.

Seeing as how you're not taking 300 million guns out of circulation nor stopping criminals from getting guns (a War on Guns! would go about as well as our War on Drugs!), if you really want to stop school shootings this would an effective approach, at least of areas inside the school.

That said, the shooters can still wait outside. Or go to other public places.

The reality that no one probably wants to accept is that these are going to continue a limited, random-type pace and there really isn't any law, action or otherwise that's going to change it. And if they actually pass some of these things -- whether it's arm teaches or ban AR15s, they'll still happen and the reaction won't be, "welp, maybe we can't do much about them" -- the reaction will be "we didn't arm and train the teachers well enough! or we didn't ban enough guns!

as you point out the problem isn?t school shootings, it?s shootings. Making every school in the nation perfectly safe doesn?t prevent the Las Vegas shooting, the Texas church shooting, or the fort hood shooting.

You are also correct that the shootings will continue no matter what. But we can try to slow them, or stop more of them. That?s the whole point.

[crashcourse]

were thinking about the trent jones trail next year

[iam416]

For the fuck of it I'll start thinking about my favorite scenes from The Wire. This one is certainly in the top 10, probably top 5:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW-iQNwNshQ"]Snoop from The Wire's Grand Entrance - YouTube[/ame]

[iam416]

You are also correct that the shootings will continue no matter what. But we can try to slow them, or stop more of them. That’s the whole point.

You ain't banning guns, dude. End. Of. Story. Banning some guns ain't ending shit or slowing shit. That's the whole point. "We've got to try something!!!" isn't policy.

[AlabamAlum]

band of brothers 2
GOT 3
sopranos 6
VEEP 7

all you golf junkies--8 of us just got back from scottsdale

4 nights/5 days in a nice condo full kitchen 3 tvs balcony off tatum and 101across street from desert ridge market place--highly recommend keg steakhouse
130 holes of golf including kierland/biltmore/lookout mountain/legacy/ and estrella
860 bucks apiece

Forgot Band of Brothers. That was not really an on-going series, though, but it was great. I would have that right behind GoT.

The Scottsdale trip sounds good. What company did you book with?