Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[THE_WIZARD_]

:::kills Hoss:::

[hack]

Hmmmm. There's a disconnect there. No one who actually read that would reach that conclusion. But hey, you're you.

Well attack the post if you can, and the poster if you cannot, but ultimately either you're minded to be skeptical of Easterbrook or you're not. I am. Use of the dollar jumped out as a red flag immediately for me. The dollar isn't the defacto global currency because America's future is bright. That's a backward looking indicator. Clearly the dollar is going to be the dollar for a long time, but the slow-motion trend against it is observable and makes Easterbrook look foolish. The tradeability of the yuan has surged in the past decade, China will settle half its trade in itw own currency within a decade supposedly, and the yuan is now one of the four currencies in the basket used to value the IMF's own currency, the SDR. That change will be official on October 1, and as a result the dollar will count for less in that basket. Loss of influence.

IMO if you're going to be completely ignorant of human nature, and rely entirely on data, then you'd better be damn good at picking your numbers and knowing how to make them work for you. Easterbrook in reality writes this story every few years. This is at least the third time I've read it from him. He wants to make this point, keeps making it, and nothing changes. Maybe he should think about that.

[froot loops]

Yeah, but the 2008 campaign didn't allow for the real voter backlash. The crash came after the nominees were picked. There was no room for the socialists to cry about the evils of market economics. So they had to wait. If the crash had been in 2007 you would have had this election.

Easterbook is rather spot on. The socialist progressives are making a case for sweeping change and for that you can't say things are good. You can't say the quality of living has in this country has improved massively over the past 2-3-4-5 decades. You can't say crime has been decreasing for 2 decades. You can't say environmental regulations are in full effect. And not only can't acknowledge how good things are in the US, but you have to say they're BAD.

So, instead of acknowledging increases in quality of life and wages, it's income inequality!!!! we'd rather have everyone making $10 than the bottom 99% making $25 and the top 1% making $100!!! Instead of acknowledging reduction in crime and general improvement in race relations, it's BLM narrative fed by a Ferguson lie. Instead of acknowledging the massive strides in environmental protection over the past 50 years, it's a cataclysmic scare mode on climate change w/ little to no evidence to support.

And the Rs, who are typically optimistic about America, go and nominate a guy who pushes a total Nationalist agenda from protectionism to building a wall.

Oh well. Easterbook is right -- children born today in the US are the luckiest in the World and of any generation.

I'm not sure the Republicans have been all that optimistic, you ever watch Fox News?

PPP had a survey where 64 percent of Republicans falsely believe that unemployment has risen under Obama's watch.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/barack-obama/

[iam416]

Yeah, Froot, I agree. I think generally their "intellectual" side is more optimistic about America than their opposite numbers.

It's no surprise they think Obama sucks. No amount of facts would change that. What is surprising is that the socialist wing of the Ds thinks it. But, I chalk most of that up to activist rhetoric.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Republicans have been ranting and raving about the moral decline of America for 50 years or more. Optimistic about the military and the American economy (if left to itself)? Sure. But they're alarmist on most social issues.

[iam416]

Eh, a certain faction, I guess. But mostly they just disagree on social issues. I don't think that equates to concluding America is broken. I don't think that leads to a rejection of American exceptionalism.

Liberals rant about a lot of things, too. I don't think, e.g., that wanting higher taxes equates to what I'm talking about.

I dunno - if there is a poll out there asking if America is great, my guess is Rs would be significantly more likely to answer in the affirmative.

[Da Geezer]

Boy, DSL, I just don't see it that way. I know a lot of folks who are died-in-the-wool social conservatives who have simply recognized that they have lost that fight. As a general rule, evangelicals are socially conservative. Trump has been carrying them in recent primaries, but I don't think anyone would classify Trump as a social conservative.

[Dr. Strangelove]

"Make America great again!"...for that slogan to appeal to so many populist leaning conservatives suggests it has some resonance. And for it to mean anything, you have to believe that America WAS once great, but sure ain't right now.

Crime, morals, drug abuse, laziness, abuse of all govt services, corruption, immigrants...conservatives tend to believe all these things are much worse NOW than at some time in the mythical past. Maybe the National Review sort of Republicans don't worry about these things as much. But the National Review sort of Republicans have proven with this election that they don't understand or represent their base nearly as much as they think they do.

[iam416]

Do you agree with my opinion on the poll or not? The way you're equivocating makes me think Rs and Ds are equally despondent over America, or close to it.

[Wild Hoss]

Crime, morals, drug abuse, laziness, abuse of all govt services, corruption, immigrants...conservatives tend to believe all these things are much worse NOW than at some time in the mythical past. Maybe the National Review sort of Republicans don't worry about these things as much. But the National Review sort of Republicans have proven with this election that they don't understand or represent their base nearly as much as they think they do.

Listen smartass, The Police Action Against Christmas didn't flare up into a full-blown War on Christmas for no reason. Its because everything is going to hell! Dogs and cats, living together...mass hysteria.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Do you agree with my opinion on the poll or not? The way you're equivocating makes me think Rs and Ds are equally despondent over America, or close to it.

They are despondent over different things. I think you significantly overestimate the number of National Review types remaining in the Republican Party. If that were the case there's no way Trump and Cruz would've been the two top candidates all primary season.

I think a lot of Rs (and even more conservatives) believe America WAS great...but isn't so much anymore. Great America is somewhere back in the past. Ask Trump supporters if America is great even if Trump fails to get elected and will the vast majority say "yes"? I'm not confident of that.

As for Democrats and liberals a lot of them reject American exceptionalism, period. As you said. They probably think a great America has never been realized and lies somewhere in the future.

So yes, the Right regrets America's lurch to the left on nearly all social issues. The Left regrets America's lurch to the right on most aspects of the economy. And a lurch to the right on civil rights/foreign policy since 9/11. We can debate that again if you like but I think it's reasonably undeniable that the country has undergone extensive deregulation beginning with the Reagan years. Liberals succeeding in getting some climate change crap shoved through doesn't undo the tsunami of deregulation that began in Carter's last few years.

[froot loops]

The National Review employs Dinesh D'Souza and Kevin Williamson, not much optimsm.

[iam416]

Do you agree with my opinion on the poll or not? The way you're equivocating makes me think Rs and Ds are equally despondent over America, or close to it.

They are despondent over different things. I think you significantly overestimate the number of National Review types remaining in the Republican Party. If that were the case there's no way Trump and Cruz would've been the two top candidates all primary season.

If you're going to offer more equivocation, just say I don't know the answer or I disagree with your assertion. At least that'd a direct response. Then you can get into all of the other stuff -- stuff which is interesting, generally thoughtful and worth reading -- but it's not an answer to what I asked.

It's worth clarifying that the original link blamed Progressives and Trump supporters as opposed to Ds and Rs. That said, Trumpees generally believe in "America" -- they may think it's no good now, but the belief is there; I don't think marxo-progressives believe in "America" in any way, shape or form. I think you'd be FAR more likely to get a Trumpee to say "America is great" than a marxo-progressive -- it may be that only 10% of Trumpees would say it, but that'd still rate 10x more than marxo-progessives in my opinion.

Finally, I'm happy to discuss lurches in each direction. I assume you mean a lurch right on civil LIBERTIES not civil rights. Civil rights move inexorably in one direction and it ain't fucking "right". And as noted previously, you can point to instances of de-regulation and I can point to the massive growth of the administrative state and, TBH, the massive increase in the Administrative code. I feel pretty good about my macro argument on this one. Further, there's no question this is part of a massive expansion of Executive power. I'm not sure if I consider a hugely expanded Executive power to be a left/right issue, but it's certainly anti-"classical liberal" and "founders".

[iam416]

The National Review employs Dinesh D'Souza and Kevin Williamson, not much optimsm.

You should read NRO.

[entropy]

I'd suggest both sides believe things could be better IF they had their way on every issue.