M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[froot loops]

I think Meyer served notice to the rest of the nation yesterday.

[iam416]

Well, OSU is ok at kicking over wheelchairs, throttling cripples and taking their lunch money. They did the same thing to UNL last year (and Rutgers and Maryland). So, meh...jury is still out. That said, this stretch of picking on invalids has done OSU good, I think. Their offense is definitely getting a Kevin Wilson feel to it and, accordingly, some much-needed coherency. The running and passing plays are actually related! No fucking shit...dead serious. Crazy ass times.

Meanwhile, after the OU game most fans wanted JTB benched in favor of anyone. And it was a comfortable "most". He's starting to look confident. He had loads of easy passes last night, but he also dimed about 6 or 7 balls. UNL also did everything but provide him a recliner in the pocket, so, you know...there's that. But, still...he threw some inch perfect balls. Would have had a bigger night if UNL didn't get crafty and tackle WRs that had torched their CBs for deep plays.

Anywho, JTB is now sitting at: 1839 passing yards on 8.9 per attempt with 21 TDs and 1 INT. He's rushed for 359 at 5.1 per attempt and has 5 TDs. The few times the pocket did collapse last night he had some devastating scrambles. He also trucked some sad sac UNL defender 5 yards deep in the endzone on one of his TD runs.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I really, really want to plaster those fucks from HV.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Jeff, I'm trying to gently make fun of you for all this forest/trees nonsense. You are being as unreasonable on your end of the spectrum as any Fire Harbaugh people are at the other end of the spectrum.

My wife is constantly reminding me of how literal I am. I don't get subtle humor. Let's start from that point.

On unreasonable ...... I think this is just a difference in perspective with regards to football only. I like sound observation and as rigorous analysis as is possible to support a given conclusion. You are terrific with this sort of thing in the Misc....... thread. I just dont know enough about some of the topics discussed and just stay the hell out. I'll post when I have knowledge (Health Care).

I know a lot about M football (self congratulatory nod) and a lot of that comes from nearly 60 years of perspective with regard to it. In the last 3-4y as time has permitted, becoming a student of the game has become a hobby, a serious one. I'm also a huge homer. I resent hot takes that ridicule the program. Maybe that gets in the way a bit. But, on balance, I think I do a pretty good job of both lending perspective and analytics to outcomes and these lead to, what I believe, are more reasonable conclusions about the state of M football at a given point in time.

[THE_WIZARD_]

...show of hands...who wants Talent dead...

[Jeff Buchanan]

I'll pass ........... but:

FUCK osu

[Jeff Buchanan]

Look, I feel bad for UNL fans, really bad, and that is because I know how this feels. 4y ago, and even before that, M has suffered the indignities of humiliating losses to those fucks from c-bus.

I'd have to go back and check (talent has this kind of shit at his fingertips and he will post it) but before Bo, Woody regularly schooled M and every team in the BIG. This is not new. It is a historical reality. Bo only managed to even things out during his tenure. That continued through Mo and the first part of LC's tenure. Then came the wonder years of John Cooper, at least for M. It's been a shit fest since then all in favor of osu. I still think osu holds a healthy win margin over M since the time of modern football in the mid 50s or so.

It's turning out that JH is not the savior we had hoped he'd be as it relates to M's rivals - MSU and osu (1-4, soon to be 1-5). This is not good, Bob. It is also the reality of the current age. It is why I sympathize with you poor bastards.

[THE_WIZARD_]

...again...who wants Talent dead...

[iam416]

Woody was 16-11-1 against M. He was 4-5-1 against Bo. So, before Bo arrive, Woody was on a 12-6 run, which is very nice, but hardly dominant. Earle was 5-4 against M. Coop was 2-10-1. Tressel was 9-1 and Urbs is 5-0 (and F'n Fickell is 0-1).

The Tressel-UFM years are clearly the nadir for M in the rivalry. That said, at no point in time has OSU ever beaten M like they beat UNL. Even the the awful RichGOD teams only lost 42-7, 21-10, 37-7. Granted, that was Tressel and not UFM. But, still.

[WingsFan]

Jeff time to clean up this threads name?

Originated by Buckeye Paul? Really? He never posted much even back in the Borg days, was just a friend of Liney.

Give your buddy his legitimate claim to the thread header, whether he wants it or not.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Yeah, sometimes I feel like it would have been much easier to swallow if osu beat M like 50-3 but, you're right, a lot of the games, the Deven Gardner broken foot loss and especially the 2 under JH have been excruciating losses. I think that just magnifies the pain.

The young-uns from Lincoln are just now beginning to taste what this is like. Give it time.

[iam416]

especially the 2 under JH have been excruciating losses

Well, I mean, the first was a thorough destruction. Last year's was soul-crushing.

But, yes, M has mostly played OSU close. First, Tressel. He wasn't going to blow out M ever on the road. So, you get 21-10 and 14-3 (M could have played 16 quarters and not scored a TD). But, he was also going to win -- so you get that 2005 Troy Smith back-breaker.

Second, the one good thing you can say about Hoke is that he played OSU tough. 2012 was tight. 2013 was painfully close. And even 2014 was close. It was TD game when JTB got hurt and OSU went for it on 4th and 1. Elliot scored, Darren Lee returned a fumble and game that was basically one score for 54 minutes ended up 42-28 (M did score at the end).

[THE_WIZARD_]

STFU

[WingsFan]

Second, the one good thing you can say about Hoke is that he played OSU tough.

stfu

There are no moral victories in Ann Arbor. They don't put a loss in paranthesis.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well, I mean, the first was a thorough destruction. Last year's was soul-crushing.

Well, I can always count on you to nail the details. I'm getting a little senile in the memory department.

....... for me, though, it was the anticipation, nay the absolute certainty, of having HARBAUGH!!! come in and school urbz and have that thrown back in my face.

It happened with RR, it happened with Hoke (less certainty on that one), and you laughed at me both times ...... you we're right, fucker!

TBH, I'm dissappointed in Harbaugh. There's strong evidence he didn't recognize what was happening on the OL and adjust. We've been down this road with precise names, who decommited, who got injured, who we lost out on. But it seems pretty clear to me that the OL stuff going on right now is a result of not dealing with this as well as he might have. So, your very early on question, "how good of a recruiter is he?", appears to be prescient.

I have my doubts about Harbaughffense but not as strongly as some. He needs a QB; he's got a guy who he thought could run it out for the season and a guy he never thought was actually going to start, starting. No idea on JH's first QB recruit Brandon Peters - rumors and dumb ass speculation about him out number facts by about a 10-1 margin.

So those two things, the OL and QB situations, disappoint me the most. How much is recruiting, how much is development, we can't know. All we know is that OL and QB performance is less than required to power Harbaughffense if all the available measures to evaluate it are considered.

[iam416]

Several points:

1. The B10 East is hard business. Dantonio can coach. Franklin is good enough with those resources to be dangerous. UFM's program is elite. Durkin, IMO, is pretty good. IU is still living off Wilson, so we'll see if they can fight off Durkin for #5. HARBAUGH!!! was never waltzing into the East and running roughshod.

2. He screwed up OL recruiting or just missed out. That's on him (IMO). He's a plenty good recruiter. M will, IMO, probably be clearly 2nd best in the East over time. The problem is that you tend to measure him against UFM. Meyer has flaws, but recruiting isn't one of them.

3. I don't know enough about the offense. I have a preference for what UFM (and the bulk of CFB) does for at least two reasons: (1) simplicity and (2) use of the QB as a running threat. I do think that HARBAUGH!!! with Speight had enough of an offense to beat anyone. I do no think that's the case with O'Korn.

4. The things that bother M fans the most are those that, IMO, were part and parcel to the Legend of HARBAUGH!!!! First, and foremost, he was the QB Whisperer! I've found this way overstated for awhile (and I've argued on Ruddock a lot -- as he is the prime example). He's good, no doubt. He's not a sorcerer. Second, he can win without STARZ! That's honestly not going to cut it in the East. Again, he's not a sorcerer.

What he is, has been and will be is a very good coach. In terms of the B10 East that means, yeah, join the fucking club.