M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[Hannibal]

Last year's defense was pretty mediocre and this year's will be better with Countess returning and the young talented guys getting another year of experience. I'm expecting a lot more sacks and turnovers. They might miss Kovacs because he made few mistakes, but he wasn't a playmaker either and he was physically overmatched against better teams.

[iam416]

No good defense should miss Kovacs.

[hack]

No great defense maybe, but that's just arguing matters of degree. Fundamentally, yes. Michigan should be able to move on just fine without Kovacs. It's not like losing Mike Martin.

I forgot about Countess. That should be a major boost too. Not on the scale of Borges no longer having to fit his style with Denard's, but it's significant.

[Optimus Prime]

I honestly expect our defense to be shutdown this year and national title contender the next. That will be a 4th year of Mattison on the job, not sure why we are not maxing-out year year in terms of scholarships, it is an unfortunate business but RR's roster must be purged....if not, time to move on.

We've had a decade of poor coaching, bad decisions the time to win is now.

Although on probation and their season was incomplete for OSU. Meyer manged 12-0 with Tressel's guys!

[Hannibal]

Tressel left behind a collection of 4* and 5* guys.

I think that your expectations are about a year ahead of schedule. 2015 will be NC caliber, barring a lot of unexpected attrition or busts. Still too many places where a talented freshman or sophomore is battling for a position with a 3* upperclassman RichRod guy.

[iam416]

It's not like losing Mike Martin.

Correct. I think he might be the only M player I ever felt a twinge of sympathy for. The guy was really good, busted his ass on every play and was surrounded by poop-flinging disabled monkeys being coached up by putrid mix of idiocy and malaise.

Tressel left behind a collection of 4* and 5* guys.

Eh. I mean, don't get me wrong, the cupboard wasn't bare. But that team had lots of holes. What he did leave behind was a superstar QB. Warriner took a reasonably talented, but thin and underachieving OL, and turned them into a strength. The WRs still mostyl stunk. The LBs were so thin Zach Boren had to play there. DL+Secondary was stellar.

[iam416]

2015 will be NC caliber

A lot depends on QB, and that will be an known. I like M's chances to in 2014 a little better, assuming Gardner comes along.

[Optimus Prime]

Tressel left behind a collection of 4* and 5* guys.

I think that your expectations are about a year ahead of schedule. 2015 will be NC caliber, barring a lot of unexpected attrition or busts. Still too many places where a talented freshman or sophomore is battling for a position with a 3* upperclassman RichRod guy.

Sorry Hannibal, I don't buy it. Good coaches find a way to win.

Mike Singletary was fried by San Fran, they didn't make the playoffs for 6 or more years, his roster was crap. Harbaugh had them one "bad call" by the officials away from playing in the Super Bowl followed by another "bad call" away from wining it all.

A fired-up , motivated coach more often than not makes all the difference.

[Optimus Prime]

In 2015, Morris hopefully will have redshirted and likely will have little or no college game experience. Gardner plays QB as Senior in 2014.

Unfortunately he hasn't played football since the 11th grade, unless his is Johnny Manziel incognito, I doubt it.

[iam416]

In 2015, Morris hopefully will have redshirted and likely will have little or no college game experience. Gardner plays QB as Senior in 2014.

Exactly. Like their chances better in 2014. Only thing better in 2015 is a home game with OSU. However, if Braxton goes pro -- and that's a very real possibility -- 2014 may be a better situation for M.

[Rocky Bleier]

Curious...if Braxton goes pro...what position?

[hack]

Well if he goes pro, I'd assume it's b/c he's a good enough passed to play his current position.

Agree with both OP and Hannibal. Sort of. It's not gonna be a shutdown defense this year with mostly RR recruits on that DL. Pipkins and some of Wormley, Stroebel, Charlton, etc. would have to emerge as the real strength of the line for that to happen.

Next year is shut-down time, and if Gardner's touching his ceiling at this stage in his development, that's indeed a contender. After that, though, in '15 you have a frosh QB. But '16 -- if McDowall and hand show up, that's where you might see a defense to rival '97.

[Hannibal]

A lot depends on QB, and that will be an known. I like M's chances to in 2014 a little better, assuming Gardner comes along.

When I say NC caliber in 2015, I'm thinking more of the defense. I expect it to be awesome. Massive combination of talent and experience, especially at the positions where experience matters most. I'm also jumping to conclusions assuming that at least one of McDowell or Hand will go blue. Not a single projected weakness on that squad other than maybe SLB.

Exactly. Like their chances better in 2014. Only thing better in 2015 is a home game with OSU. However, if Braxton goes pro -- and that's a very real possibility -- 2014 may be a better situation for M.

2014 -- offense will be replacing two great offensive tackles with guys who aren't as talented. Drake Harris will only be a true freshman and receiver talent mostly sucks other than that. Offensive line is a huge question mark in the coaching department. Tea leaves are saying that the center position in 2013 is going to be pretty bad, which means a potential new starter there in 2014. There's a chance that they'll be replacing Gardner next year too. If you're thinking of Michigan's chances purely against OSU in the event of Braxton Miller leaving, that might be the better year for Michigan. Other than that, I'm expecting the 2014 team to be 10-3 or maybe 11-2 caliber, at best. The only stud senior that we will be losing on either side of the ball after 2014 will be Jake Ryan, who I don't think is as irreplaceable as he is believed to be.

2015 could have something like 18 returning starters.

[Hannibal]

BTW, there's absolutely no way that Morris redshirts.

[Rob F]

Agree with both OP and Hannibal. Sort of. It's not gonna be a shutdown defense this year with mostly RR recruits on that DL. Pipkins and some of Wormley, Stroebel, Charlton, etc. would have to emerge as the real strength of the line for that to happen.

If it's not shutdown this season, it should be close. As bad as the recruiting was under RR, those remaining RR guys (in combination with the recruits under Hoke/Mattison), if not standouts, will provide a lot of quality depth, the kind of depth we haven't seen at U of M on D for a long while.

Here are a list of the remaining RR defensive recruits and what looks like their projected roles early on in fall practice:

Jibreel Black: solid rotation guy at defensive tackle. DEPTH.

Q. Washington: solid rotation guy and/or probable starter at NT. At very least, quality DEPTH.

Frank Clark: Starter and potential star at one of the end positions, can be a major playmaker, all-B1G caliber.

Jake Ryan: On the shelf right now as he rehabs, but way ahead of schedule in his recovery and a difference maker once back in the lineup around mid-season

Desmond Morgan: moving this season to middle LB, reportedly more his natural position. Smart player and leader, should be (IMO) a slight upgrade from Kenny Demens overall as the projected starter.

Thomas Gordon: taking over Jake Ryan's spot for now. I'm not sure what to expect, but the word is he physically on par with what Ryan brings. Lack of experience in this role could be crucial, especially vs. ND, but the rest of the schedule in the 1st half of the 2013 season should allow him to gradually work into the role. After Ryan';s return, DEPTH.

Blake Countess: (pretty much the last of the RR recruits, who recommitted under Hoke) If you count Countess as an RR guy, he's the highest rated recruit of the bunch, and if he's fully recovered, as the narrative out of Ann Arbor seems to be, he's ready to pick up where he left off as a potential star in the secondary.

Now take those ingredients, sprinkle in a liberal amount of Hoke recruits and let the Master Chef (Mattison) whip up his recipe, and I see a damn good defense already in 2013, an even better and much more experienced defense in 2014, and frightening good (best D since 1997) in 2015.