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I don't think Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James were chopped liver.
He had some very good offensive players. He also made players (Brandon Stokely, heh). But the Colts' problem was never really offensive. It was defense. And have to play a far more complete team in the Patriots on the road.
Anyway, this is obviously a vast difference in opinion. But Manning is the best QB of the 21st C, IMO, and that puts him the conversation of all-time greats with 3 or 4 others.
Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]? Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
I honestly don't have a good grasp of his defenses. While they were certainly never great defenses, I never got the sense that they were horrible either.
Brady is the best hands down. Modern era, league parity, salary cap at one time, year-in & year-out always near or at the top. Manning is GOOD, Brady is BETTER.
What are they heading to their 5th Super Bowl and it may be soon be 4 of 5 at the Big Dance? Damn shame about that NYG 4th & 500 Miracle catch otherwise they'd be perfect heading Indianapolis.
?I don?t take vacations. I don?t get sick. I don?t observe major holidays. I?m a jackhammer.?
"They were pretty horrible. Especially against the run, especially with Bob Sanders always hurt."
You beat me to it. Exactly right. To add to Jamie's list, you'd have to add Bobby Lane, Sammie Baugh, Terry Bradshaw (the Steelers had never won a single championship until Bradshaw came along and won 4 Super Bowls--he had a great team around him no doubt but he was the QB who won those 4) You could add Daryl Lamonica from the old AFL and other notables like Y.A Title. These old guys played in a league that gave no protection to a QB, unlike Manning and those of the "modern era". Don't get me wrong--I think Manning is a great guy and a great QB. He has shown his worth his season when the Colts went from the longest play-off qualifying streak in the NFl to the worst record in the league. Manning led the Colts to 11 play-off seasons in 13 years as the starter. He still has a losing record in the play-offs, however. To say he's the "best QB in the 21st century" is like saying I played on the Michigan YMCA runner up state basketball championship team when I was in high school. Sounds great until you realize there were only three teams in the state tournament, we got blown out by 30 points and came in second when the third team in the tournament forfeited. A lot of "century" left to play.
Yeah, Bradshaw was right on the end of my list. His numbers were just never great. But he was certainly a good leader. I think his Pittsburgh teams won a lot with their defense.
Plus, his tendency to throw bombs probably hurts his QB rating, since he wasn't throwing 10 bubble-screens every game.
To say he's the "best QB in the 21st century" is like saying I played on the Michigan YMCA runner up state basketball championship team when I was in high school. Sounds great until you realize there were only three teams in the state tournament, we got blown out by 30 points and came in second when the third team in the tournament forfeited. A lot of "century" left to play.
Perfect.
Like M basketball, I'm not a big follower of the NFL but Manning never struck me as "The Greatest." Ali? No doubt. Dominated his sport with class and dignity. Manning? Don't think so. Mariino? Baugh? Theisman? Montana? Brady? Bradshaw? Those are names that even though I do not follow the NFL that closely, I think of as greats.
Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. JH chased Saban from Alabama and caused Day, at the point of the OSU AD's gun, to make major changes to his staff just to beat Michigan. Love it. It's Moore!!!! time
To say he's the "best QB in the 21st century" is like saying I played on the Michigan YMCA runner up state basketball championship team when I was in high school.
Maybe. There are some pretty good QBs this decade, including Tom Brady. Frankly, if you think Manning is the best QB of this century, he's in the conversation for all-time greats. So, actually, it's zero like YMCA hoops or whatever.
And look, I'm a diehard Stiller fan, and I love Terry Bradshaw, but isn't a top 10 QB period. Not even close. And Roethlisberger isn't better than Manning, either, b/c he won 2 SBs and played in another.
There is no QB who has ever been more important to his team, IMO, and he was damn, damn good at it. A fantastic player. And, frankly, one that I don't really like. Heh. I hate the Colts -- at least the Manning Colts. Like I hate the Brady Pats. But no NFL fan can deny either.
Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]? Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
I thiink Peyton is certainly comparable to the best QB of his time--Brady, Brees, maybe Rodgers now. Maybe Favre if you ignore the ridiculous way his career ended. I don't think any of those guys are the greatest of all time. If Brady keeps winning Super Bowls he will end up in that discussion. I don't see any situation short of a miracle renissance to his career that would leave Manning in that conversation.
I don't think you can ignore winning it all. If you could, then Dan Marino is the greatest QB in history, hands down. He put up pinball numbers before all the rule changes made it possbile for everyone to do that. He probably had the fastest release in history. And every WR that played with him became irrelevant when they went to other teams. He played with sub-par talent his entire career and made everyone around him look way better than they were.
Last edited by Jamie H; January 25, 2012, 11:13 PM.
Since the NBA thread went poof, I'll just mention here that Darius Morris has played in seven NBA games and is averaging 3.6 points, 1.6 assists and 1.7 rebounds in just under 18 minutes per game.
then Dan Marino is the greatest QB in history, hands down. He put up pinball numbers before all the rule changes made it possbile for everyone to do that. He probably had the fastest release in history. And every WR that played with him became irrelevant when they went to other teams. He played with sub-par talent his entire career and made everyone around him look way better than they were.
I'm not sure if it's "hands down", but you make a compelling case as to why winning SBs ought not exclude QBs from the discussion. As I said earlier, Marino, for my money, is greatest pure passer ever.
Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]? Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.
The thing I always ask myself is who, on the "greats" list, would I want directing the offense if the game was on the line and I needed a score. To me, this represents the mental toughness factor, which just about every pro or former pro states is what really separates the great from the good players. My answer to that question is always Montana or Brady. Manning, at least from my observation, always seems uncomfortable in these situations. He always seems flustered if things are not going "according to plan".
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