US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[dpatnod]

Yeah....... they're not exactly equal.

[Whitley]

It doesn't matter who helped "behind the scenes. Your boy Bernie or any of the other further left candidates would not have stood a chance. The "he/she is a Socialist" cries would have scared the middle and seniors away. Trump had nothing to attack Biden on other than his lame attempt with Hunter Biden, but he had plenty to attack the more liberal candidates and his attacks would have resonated with the undecideds.

Your lamenting Biden as the Democratic candidate is ridiculous. Any alternative from the pool of Democrats running was four more years of Trump.

3% of the electorate is undecided. Trump's utter incompetence of handling covid 19 meant a moldy ham sandwich would have beaten Trump. The reason Biden is winning is because seniors have left him in droves because of his handling of covid 19.

Whoever the Democrat nominee was--- Trump's covid 19 handling would have been the same. A total CF.

[chemiclord]

I think you VASTLY underestimate the cultural programming against "Socialism" (or more accurately whatever the GOP decides to define as socialism at the time) has on the American public.

Bernie couldn't even lock down the Democratic nomination, in no small part because he calls himself a "socialist" (even though he's really not) and his approval of "far left" leaders like Castro deep sixed his appeal outside of anyone who wasn't already in his camp. Bernie would have lost, and lost badly in 2016, and would have lost in 2020.

[CGVT]

No, a moldy sandwich would not beat Trump and neither would Bernie. The Seniors would not have left him for someone they saw ans a "Sociaist". Take into consideration that Bernie backers don't vote (13 % in the primary) and the hatchet job the Trump propaganda machine would have done on him and we would certainly had four more years of Trump.

Your butt-hurt narrative is a ridiculous as it is wrong.

[Fraquar]

If Trump gets swamped it's because the masses have simply grown tired of Trump Reality TV - and Biden or any other opponent will just be the escape route to make sure they aren't subjected to 4 more years of reruns.

[Marko69]

Where are these Trump voters? i watch an absolute ton of comedy on Netflix and every comedian is against Trump and his voters...... but where are they?
Even here , in the past four years, whether in Scotland or on holiday in Spain & Italy since his presidency began, I’ve heard NO ONE say something decent about the Trumpet.

WHERE THE FK ARE THEY?

[chemiclord]

If Trump gets swamped it's because the masses have simply grown tired of Trump Reality TV - and Biden or any other opponent will just be the escape route to make sure they aren't subjected to 4 more years of reruns.

I don't want to refute this, because it IS true. Biden is not some shrewd and clever politician who has managed to find inroads with all sorts of voting blocs. He really has just left the door open and people have pretty much allowed themselves to walk through because the alternative is a shit infested sewer.

But the issue with Bernie is that he is a MASTER of slamming doors shut, usually right in his face. In some ways, he's the leftist Trump; largely unlikable unless you're already sold on his quirky personality, demands total capitulation to him and his platform or you're dead to him (part of the reason he had a lot of novice or incompetent campaign staff was because he was so abrasive that a lot of experienced staff outright refused to work under him), and is just in general a cantankerous old white man who made a career of snarling and complaining whenever something didn't go exactly his way.

So you're right, just about anyone able to at least fake even basic human compassion would probably be destroying Trump right now. The problem is I'm not convinced Bernie can do that. Much like Trump, he's built his career on anger and a set of grievances towards society at large.

[chemiclord]

Where are these Trump voters? i watch an absolute ton of comedy on Netflix and every comedian is against Trump and his voters...... but where are they?
Even here , in the past four years, whether in Scotland or on holiday in Spain & Italy since his presidency began, I’ve heard NO ONE say something decent about the Trumpet.

WHERE THE FK ARE THEY?

They are starting to get really quiet again the more it looks clear that Trump is going to get smoked, but they are out there. And while very few outside the U.S. may be singing Trump's praises, I'm sure in all those places, they have their own populist reactionaries that garner at least a decent amount of support. Trump is really just the worst of a not insignificant segment of the human race.

[JGSpartan]

Im not sure the progressive agenda wouldn't just tank an election even against Trump. I think you can sell universal health care. I'm not sure you can sell free state college and green environmental policies on top of it. It's kind of a puck your battle deal rather than push changing everything.

[CGVT]

Im not sure the progressive agenda wouldn't just tank an election even against Trump. I think you can sell universal health care. I'm not sure you can sell free state college and green environmental policies on top of it. It's kind of a puck your battle deal rather than push changing everything.

Yep. Baby steps...

[Whitley]

Im not sure the progressive agenda wouldn't just tank an election even against Trump. I think you can sell universal health care. I'm not sure you can sell free state college and green environmental policies on top of it. It's kind of a puck your battle deal rather than push changing everything.

It depends on what you policy priorities are.

If you scaled back the forever wars (of which we are involved in 9! currently) then you would not need to spend so much on overseas contingency plans. You can take the savings from administrative M4A (2 trillion over 10 years according to a Koch Brothers study), repeal the Trump tax cuts and the savings from not needing the contingency overseas military plans and do the following:

Implement M4A
Give $500/mo UBI to 42 million Americans (who were working a full time job AND having a job on the side---the economy is not working for them)
Pay 10k of tution for all FT undergrad students (room and board, books are on them)
Forgive appox. 8% of student loans (the largest debt in the US and at the very least a serious drag on the economy)

Just by rearranging priorities you have done the following: national health care, helped out the working class, made college more affordable for those in college and did some forgiveness of college debt which would be a small economic shot in the arm. Not one new tax just some scaling back and repealing the Trump tax cuts.

[chemiclord]

It depends on what you policy priorities are.

If you scaled back the forever wars (of which we are involved in 9! currently) then you would not need to spend so much on overseas contingency plans. You can take the savings from administrative M4A (2 trillion over 10 years according to a Koch Brothers study), repeal the Trump tax cuts and the savings from not needing the contingency overseas military plans and do the following:

Implement M4A
Give $500/mo UBI to 42 million Americans (who were working a full time job AND having a job on the side---the economy is not working for them)
Pay 10k of tution for all FT undergrad students (room and board, books are on them)
Forgive appox. 8% of student loans (the largest debt in the US and at the very least a serious drag on the economy)

Just by rearranging priorities you have done the following: national health care, helped out the working class, made college more affordable for those in college and did some forgiveness of college debt which would be a small economic shot in the arm. Not one new tax just some scaling back and repealing the Trump tax cuts.

The problem isn't that the ideas can't work, or that they are necessarily bad ideas.

The problem is selling enough of the American public on them to vote you into power to make them happen.

[JGSpartan]

Right, my comment was more to that point of convincing people. We have the economic power to do it all. It's not really radical but too many people think it is.

[Whitley]

Right, my comment was more to that point of convincing people. We have the economic power to do it all. It's not really radical but too many people think it is.

And that is something progressives HAVE to reframe.

But everywhere M4A was polled (and when on the ballot) in the primaries it was overwhelming for M4A.

And then you hear people close to Biden backing away from even a public option (which does not do much IMO).

I think a Biden administration is not going to address the problems that led to Trump. And I wonder when someone will start speaking up for the working class which BOTH parties are abandoning.

[chemiclord]

And that is something progressives HAVE to reframe.

But everywhere M4A was polled (and when on the ballot) in the primaries it was overwhelming for M4A.

And then you hear people close to Biden backing away from even a public option (which does not do much IMO).

I think a Biden administration is not going to address the problems that led to Trump. And I wonder when someone will start speaking up for the working class which BOTH parties are abandoning.

Here's the problem. "Universal Healthcare" is what is frequently polled, wrapped up in a "Medicare For All" wrapper. Yes, an overwhelming amount of Americans like the IDEA of everyone being covered.

But the INSTANT you start polling on what M4A actually entails? Support for it drops like a stone. For example, if you tell them it will abolish private care, and that 56% support drops to something along the lines of 40%. Tell them taxes will go up, even if it means out of pocket costs will be eliminated? Now support drops into the 30s.

THAT'S why Biden is "backing off" on it. Because underneath the surface, the support for M4A isn't as rock solid as you want to believe it is.