Coronavirus Safety Protocol - please read and discuss

[Futureshock]

I'd have to agree with you there.

It is also not the scientific method to not delve into the origin. If it were, there should be major ramifications

[TheLondonLion]

The world needs answers. It’s incredible to me that we’re just going to shrug when a novel disease has set the world on fire, killing millions, costing millions of people their businesses and livelihoods and sending inflation through the roof while emptying shelves - and no one is really asking why. We’re just going to accept this fell out of the sky with no evidence?

It should be the single biggest priority behind saving lives now.


Apparently to leading scientists (including Fauci), protecting “Chinese science” and “international harmony” is more important than the truth. That doesn’t sound very scientific to me.

[foxhopper]

And don't start piling on LondonLion because I have liked a couple of his recent posts. He hasn't joined me on the dark scary evil side. He has real and legitimate questions that need fucking open discussion and answers. Good for him. There may be hope for a few of you.

[TheLondonLion]

Oh yeah, I agree.

That’s why I think science regulating itself (and covering up for itself) can be extremely dangerous.

I’d first of all like to know what caused this - and that involves far more international pressure being ratcheted up on China (who are currently claiming it came from the US - again, indicative of guilt).

At the moment no one is really asking questions, we’ve just accepted this as normal. But it isn’t normal.

The big issue is “gain of function” research, where viruses are souped up with human cells to be studied. Is the “juice” of this kind of research worth the squeeze, when an escape can cause a horrendous pandemic? It’s an ethical issue I’d like fo see addressed.

Fauci has questions to answer on this subject, in my opinion. Obama banned this kind of research in the US, so it appears to have been outsourced to China where there is no oversight, per State Department cables from two years previous the lab had been flagged as a safety risk and then they shut up shop to stonewall inquiries.

As it stands, we’re doing nothing to protect ourselves from the outbreak of future pandemics (whether or was from “nature” or the lab) because we have no confirmation of the cause.

[Futureshock]

The truthg of the matter, and this will not make you feel any better TLL, is there are a bunch of contaminants that could kill us at any time without us knowing what hit us.

For instance one example that comes to mind is when I used to work as an Occupational Safety Manager for a municipality. We have a Sewage Treatment plant that treats effluent with chemicals before it is released back into the surface water.

Well, in this process some of the chemicals that are directly introduced in the cleaning stage (where it does it's job and is somewhat harmless) under water are extremely dangerous when released in the air. One pin hole sized leak in the above surface piping could caused 100k people or more to die within minutes. Depending on the which way the wind blows.

But that, and many other things are always out there and around us.

[TheLondonLion]

I care because unless you know where it came from, you can’t learn any lessons to prevent it happening again. And it’s killed 4-5 million people and wiped trillions off the global economy.

You don’t have to be an epidemiologist to see that the co-incidence, in combination with the behaviour of the Chinese government is beyond suspicious.

Please don’t ever group me with Joe Rogan and Donald Trump Jr again.

[froot loops]

You should be asking the questions before you take their word as gospel, learn from your first Occam's Razor argument. The problem a lot of you guys and fellas like Doctors Joe Rogan and Donald Trump Junior is you read a few charged articles and all of a sudden you are an epidemiologist.

I don't know where it came from, I don't particularly care. Scouring the internet to get outraged is not my cup of tea.

[TheLondonLion]

Good question - another one that should be asked, but isn’t.

Some of the grants for the research in China was coming from the NIH - good luck getting any accountability for the investment though.

On Wednesday, the NIH sent a letter to members of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce that acknowledged two facts. One was that EcoHealth Alliance, a New York City–based nonprofit that partners with far-flung laboratories to research and prevent the outbreak of emerging diseases, did indeed enhance a bat coronavirus to become potentially more infectious to humans, which the NIH letter described as an “unexpected result” of the research it funded that was carried out in partnership with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The second was that EcoHealth Alliance violated the terms of its grant conditions stipulating that it had to report if its research increased the viral growth of a pathogen by tenfold.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.van...h-in-wuhan/amp

[froot loops]

How those fellas funded?

[TheLondonLion]

More facts emerged.

Horseshoe bats aren’t found in Wuhan or anywhere near - so why didn’t we see outbreaks of a highly infectious disease along the supply chain to Wuhan? Why has no intermediary animal been found?

Why did leading scientists say in private correspondence that it was likely a lab escape and then publish an article days later saying it came from nature to protect “Chinese science”? They’re questions that should be asked.

An email from Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, on February 2 2020 said that “a likely explanation” was that Covid had rapidly evolved from a Sars-like virus inside human tissue in a low-security lab.

The email, to Dr Anthony Fauci and Dr Francis Collins of the US National Institutes of Health, went on to say that such evolution may have “accidentally created a virus primed for rapid transmission between humans”.

But a leading scientist told Sir Jeremy that “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, warned it could damage “international harmony”.

This came out yesterday and in my opinion it stinks.

[froot loops]

So Occam's Razor changed? You are fooling yourself if you think only the Chinese would stonewall and slow play investigations.

[TheLondonLion]

I guess the answer is to believe that there is no oversight and just stop all research on this shit and let nature take it's course.

Well, it’s risk versus reward isn’t it?

Is it worth the risks of deliberately making viruses highly infectious in human cells to “study” when the potential outcome is a deadly global pandemic if it leaks? Are there safer ways to experiment?

The Obama administration paused this kind of research for this exact reason. It’s an ethical question, but one that isn’t really being asked because we have no verified idea where this came from - likely by design.

[TheLondonLion]

The Spanish Flu was far worse and it.popped up in Kansas.

I don't think we will ever know if it was a lab leak. But if it was, people are acting like there is one lab like that in the world and they fucked it up. The reason they have these labs is because pandemics that pop up are fairly common throughout human history and these labs study them .

Weren't you the fella who were bitching about the Chinese and the wet markets being the culprit? Did Occam's razor change?

Well, that was the culprit for SARs. I was swayed by the early science that claimed it was from nature but I no longer believe that to be the case.

It turned out that the person who submitted the influential letter to the Lancet journal dismissing the Wuhan lab theory as a “conspiracy” (while declaring no competing interests) had been working with the WIV for years and had been one of it’s main funders for this kind of dangerous research.

The Chinese government have most certainly behaved like they have something serious to hide - from threatening countries who asked for an inquiry to arresting doctors and destroying early lab samples.

I think it’s disgraceful that we aren’t looking under every stone to find out where this came from so that we can stop it ever happening again. While neither origin reflects well on the Chinese government I think they’re quite happy with the ambiguity.

[CGVT]

My concern is that with no accountability, oversight or regulation and more high level biosecurity labs emerging, as well as projects like the “virome project” to go and collect half a million wild viruses - this could happen again and even be worse.

I guess the answer is to believe that there is no oversight and just stop all research on this shit and let nature take it's course.

[froot loops]

The Spanish Flu was far worse and it.popped up in Kansas.

I don't think we will ever know if it was a lab leak. But if it was, people are acting like there is one lab like that in the world and they fucked it up. The reason they have these labs is because pandemics that pop up are fairly common throughout human history and these labs study them .

Weren't you the fella who were bitching about the Chinese and the wet markets being the culprit? Did Occam's razor change?