ohio state at Michigan, Saturday, 11/30/19, Noon EST, FOX/Fox Video

[lineygoblue]

And I pretty much agree with everything you said, Hack. Jeff is right in his characterization of some of the popular call-in sites today, and some of the absolutely idiotic things that 'fans' are saying today. And my good friend Hanni is no idiot, and I don't think Jeff believes that either.

Its a very emotional day for Michigan fans today, and especially the alumni who live and die with the OSU game's results. I feel for them, because they absolutely deserve better than what they've been getting on the field over the last 15 years. Two wins during that time is absolutely unacceptable. That has to change.

[iam416]

[Whitley]

And there is no reason to think that OSU football dominance over Michigan will ever change.

[lineygoblue]

ye gads I hate this sometimes ....

Harbaugh's teams have had a chance to win in 2017, when his QB tried to throw the ball to someone in Whitmore Lake, and it came down in the hands of an OSU DB. He basically won the previous year in Columbus, when the lazy, incompetent and Ohio-led officiating crew refused to measure for the line to gain, depriving Michigan and Harbaugh of a win there. Harbaugh has absolutely crapped the bed in the last two games, there is no doubt.

Point is, there have been winnable games by Michigan all during this skid. Even the laughable Brady Hoke had a chance to win with a successful 2 point conversion, and defeat the mighty Meyer. Meyer is a great coach. No debate. But he's beatable. Even the doddering old Lloyd Carr beat Meyer's NC defending team and the Heisman winner Tebo in his final game as HC.

Meyer is beatable, and so is Day. The talent edge is real. Just about any coach with that kind of edge in talent is going to win. Getting Fields to drop in his lap was a major benefit for Day. Had he been required to develop a QB with what was left on OSU's roster would have been a major challenge.

Bottom line, Harbaugh isn't going anywhere. I know that fact will make a lot of M fans angry, but its a fact. And I'm not sure he deserves to be fired, based on the outcome of one game/series.

[iam416]

[hack]

I don't agree that Meyer would win at the same clip at Michigan, though he clearly would do better than anyone else Michigan has had as a coach. A number of factors would have to come through at the same time for him to maintain his own personal record of success at Michigan. As much as it's factually the case that he's better, he's still human and came to the table with the odd shitty game plan or poor position group. But it's easy to look good one and to have others forget your mistakes on one side of the rivalry, and not the case on the other.

[iam416]

[hack]

And I pretty much agree with everything you said, Hack. Jeff is right in his characterization of some of the popular call-in sites today, and some of the absolutely idiotic things that 'fans' are saying today. And my good friend Hanni is no idiot, and I don't think Jeff believes that either.

Its a very emotional day for Michigan fans today, and especially the alumni who live and die with the OSU game's results.

Right. It's a shitty time, and this place is an outlet for venting. Everybody should be able to do that in relative peace.

[lineygoblue]

Harbaugh has absolutely crapped the bed in the last two games, there is no doubt.

Yep, .. I said that.

[hack]

My own two cents, not that it matters is this. HARBAUGH!!!! would have done well against Coach Tressel (by well -- 50/50ish). Coach Tressel was a great program coach but his ceiling was lower than truly elite. He was fortunate to coach against a slowly eroding Carr and RichGOD. M's problem is that OSU hired UFM and he turned that program into an insanely elite recruiting machine (by national standards, but especially by B10 standards). HARBAUGH!!! recruits more like Tressel. He had a real problem in that regard. I think Coach Day is a step up from UFM in terms of schematic approach. It's probably a step down in recruiting only because it almost has to be. But, he's still outrecruiting HARBAUGH!!! and that's a real problem.

HARBAUGH!!! came to M 8 years too late. If he takes over for Carr he's beating Tressel once or twice and capitalizing, fully, on the transition. But, he didn't.

The thing that's always concerned me about HARBAUGH!!! is recruiting --- again, not that it's not good, but good won't win the East. I said it when he was hired and I said it when he was taking scores of 3* kids (as did others). I'm now more concerned because I think he wins a lot with his brand and Q factor, and I think he's earning a wholly different one in the eyes of recruits. He's not crazy cat lady or anything like that, but the bloom is off the rose and he's gonna have to earn those recruits.

Finally, I thought Shea was great yesterday in the first half. I thought everything thing went OSU's way starting with Dobbins dribbling the ball on his way to a 30 yard run. The Shea fumble was something Penn State did TWICE against OSU last week and easily recovered -- and got a first down on one! But the ball Shea dropped was immediately kicked by an OL forward right at Landers. The penalties were stupid on M's part/lucky for OSU. And I think you go for the TD at the end of the half. I was relieved to see them kick.

The 2nd half was a blood bath. Once OSU got out of their ridiculous 4-4 and pinned their ears back it was trouble for M.

Lots of truth here. I don't know about 8 years too late, but certainly 4 years too late. I think there's weight that should be given to the idea that you can go head to head with Tressell and not enter the Meyer years at such a huge disadvantage, sure. But I think it's also a question of when his own offensive approach became outdated. Hoke's tenure here roughly coincided with 90% of major programs converting to some sort of spread. If Harbaugh had had the chance to arrive and rebuild the deep roster pipelines before having to also deal with the fact that he'd suddenly become a dinosaur, that's one less huge challenge.

[lineygoblue]

Right. It's a shitty time, and this place is an outlet for venting. Everybody should be able to do that in relative peace.

I've believed that since day one.

[WM Wolverine]

Buckeyes were spectacular offensively this season, they were mission impossible to stop. The hope was to slow them down and hope they make mistakes. Instead M's defense made one critical mistake after another.

Look at M's depth chart on defense, some good talent but most i don't see being all B1G or a future in the NFL. Glasgow was all B1G caliber this season but he didn't belong on the field when Ohio went 3+ receivers. Recruiting in the defensive backfield is a major issue, David Long mightve helped some but they needed both him and a Sophomore, Junior version of Dax Hill along with a Chase Winovich ,Chase Daniels, Chase Young type to generate pressure.

Early they were getting some pressure and Fields was making bad decisions as a passer yet mistakes by the back seven resulted in a bunch of big plays right when you thought M could get a stop. After half time, Day dialed up adjustments and Fields had time to throw and find his second, even third progression and it was game over. M's back seven isn't talented enough to cover those guys for that long.

[iam416]

The plan was pound the middle and take deep shots (in a nutshell).

[WM Wolverine]

Whatever the plan, it worked way too well.

[klondike]

Only way to beat Meyer is for the unexpected or to sneak up on them. There's no way UM and Harbuagh could do that. It's very unfortunate for Jim to be hired into this situation. But Jim shoulda known the perils that was to come when he had to compete with Urbs. Just on a recruiting level alone. He did it and with a lot of bluster and perhaps delusion. He would always be Meyer's second fiddle and until UFM's last two monster recruiting seasons are sifted out, we'll find out how good Jim is.