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  • Hack, green energy is massively subsidized





    From the NR article: Of course, wind-energy boosters like to claim that the oil-and-gas sector gets favorable tax treatment, too. That may be so, but those tax advantages are tiny when compared with the federal gravy being ladled on wind companies. Recall that the production tax credit is $23 per megawatt-hour. A megawatt-hour of electricity contains 3.4 million Btu. That means wind-energy producers are getting a subsidy of $6.76 per million Btu. The current spot price of natural gas is about $2.40 per million Btu. Thus, on an energy-equivalent basis, wind energy’s subsidy is nearly three times the current market price of natural gas. Note that it is talking about just the subsidy, and comparing it to the total cost of natural gas.


    Another "uncounted" or "hidden" subsidy for green energy is the back-up energy supply (gas or coal fired) necessary to facilitate the use of wind or solar. Neither solar or wind is a reliable source at all times and energy storage is expensive. Because they are intermittent, neither type of green energy is reliable enough to stand alone. At least wind farms are places where the wind is known to blow. Solar is equally expensive, and it only works in places like Abu Dhabi. Again, if either were competitive, why do their principals insist on a subsidy.

    Personally, I think advances in battery technology are at least as important as advances in solar cells. A couple of miles from me is the Ludington Pump Storage Project, a large man-made lake built on high dunes overlooking Lake Mich. The project's purpose is to use generating capacity during low demand periods (nights) to pump water up into the lake, and then discharge the water through turbines to generate additional power during high demand hours. It is not terribly efficient, but still cheaper than powering-up and then powering-down.
    Last edited by Da Geezer; March 17, 2017, 11:54 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Da Geezer View Post
      Nobody has yet told me why it is bad to locate nuclear reactors on the coasts?
      In the case of Japan, the new one under construction (Oma) is right on the coast and should the planet warm up another 2-3 F, then there is a good chance that the plant will be under water because of global warming.

      Of course, if temps rise that much with the corresponding sea level rise...then the following cities would be completely underwater for the US:

      Miami
      Key West
      FT. Lauderdale
      Charleston, SC
      New Orleans
      Galveston, TX
      Houston, TX
      2012 Detroit Lions Draft: 1) Cordy Glenn G , 2) Brandon Taylor S, 3) Sean Spence olb, 4) Joe Adams WR/KR, 5) Matt McCants OT, 7a) B.J. Coleman QB 7b) Kewshan Martin WR

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      • Skeptical enough to question without cause whether investment-bank research departs from costing norms, and to speculate that government controls the wind and sun, yet simultaneously not skeptical enough to take a minute and Google simple facts.

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        • Originally posted by Whitley View Post
          In the case of Japan, the new one under construction (Oma) is right on the coast and should the planet warm up another 2-3 F, then there is a good chance that the plant will be under water because of global warming.

          Of course, if temps rise that much with the corresponding sea level rise...then the following cities would be completely underwater for the US:

          Miami
          Key West
          FT. Lauderdale
          Charleston, SC
          New Orleans
          Galveston, TX
          Houston, TX
          HOUSTON WOULD BE FINE!
          "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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          • That might put the U of AL right on the beach. Eternal recruiting dominance.

            But, it might drown Florida State, so I call it a push.

            Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

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            • Originally posted by Wild Hoss View Post
              That might put the U of AL right on the beach. Eternal recruiting dominance.

              But, it might drown Florida State, so I call it a push.

              Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
              We have four real competitors at present for top talent: USC, LSU, Ohio State, and Florida State.

              With LSU and Florida State underwater, and Zeus willing, USC, too...I only have to orchestrate some sort of disaster in C-Bus.
              "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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              • Originally posted by AlabamAlum View Post

                With LSU and Florida State underwater, and Zeus willing, USC, too...I only have to wait for the next disaster in C-Bus.
                Corrected.

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                • Now answer my question about BG and Old Scribe. They still around?
                  "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

                  Comment


                  • Skeptical enough to question without cause whether investment-bank research departs from costing norms, and to speculate that government controls the wind and sun, yet simultaneously not skeptical enough to take a minute and Google simple facts.
                    I did google it. Nuclear plants are located on the coasts in order to have availability of large amounts of water used for cooling. It seems to me it might be foolish to locate plants in known earthquake zones, which I believe would apply to Japan and California. But why would it be bad to locate a plant where I live on a coast, or on the east coast of the US.

                    I think nuclear is a fine source of power, but now I have a clearer picture why the greens (not including Hack) oppose it. It is amazing how many things come back to the attempted union of religion and the state. I'm a heretic. The Dems in Congress wanted to put me in jail for what I think. I guess we should call it the Progressive Inquisition.

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                    • Hack. I said "inputs" I believe, and the government certainly controls inputs for green energy. If the wind industry hadn't gotten a waiver of the Endangered Species Act, the government would have shut them down with the first eagle that was chopped up in the blades. We have some of those towers north of where I live, and those wind farms are prime coyote hunting territory.

                      My thesis was that greens intuitively reject private ownership of resources or productive capacity. That's because they know they would starve to death without government hand-outs, so they really need to control the government, because they will never control other inputs.

                      The fact remains that wind and solar are subsidized (at a minimum) 50% of their cost. They would never exist on a commercial basis without people like Whitley who have guzzled the Koolaid.

                      Hack, your belief system contains a logical contradiction. You believe
                      1. Man is evil. And because of this power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
                      2. Government is more powerful than any corporation or group of corporations
                      BUT THEREFORE: corporations need to be more heavily regulated by government, which (and here is where you lose me) because government power will somehow be applied beneficially by the humans involved in government, who I guess are not evil.

                      Why do those with far greater power and far fewer limitations on that power not behave as all humans have behaved throughout human history? Why is government not a bigger threat to individuals than any corporation? Hey, government has the guns, and the agreed upon right to use them.
                      Last edited by Da Geezer; March 18, 2017, 12:13 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by AlabamAlum View Post
                        Now answer my question about BG and Old Scribe. They still around?
                        Do not know.

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                        • With LSU and Florida State underwater, and Zeus willing, USC, too...I only have to wait for the next disaster in C-Bus.
                          First time ever in this forum that Columbus is viewed as being above the fray.

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                          • 3,200,000 people quit their jobs in January.

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                            • Originally posted by Wild Hoss View Post
                              Do not know.

                              Find out! I'm depending on you, Obi Wan Wild Hoss.
                              "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln

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                              • Originally posted by AlabamAlum View Post
                                Find out! I'm depending on you, Obi Wan Wild Hoss.
                                If I am your only hope in this regard...the Empire is gonna win. Just being honest.

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