MLB and the Detroit Tigers Bandwagon Thread

[Dr. Strangelove]

The timeframe is a bit arbitrary (12 years?) but a little interesting still

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[THE_WIZARD_]

Big Papi in. Roids out.

[Mike]

Admit to using roids: In. Being a steadfast asshole about it for 20 years: Out.

[iam416]

It's pretty amazing, to me, that Bonds, Clemens and Rose aren't in the HoF. I mean, I understand why, I guess. But I also want to take this time to note that, IMO, amongst an entire industry of self-important, sanctimonious pricks (The Media), baseball writers are the absolute fucking worst. The. Worst.

[lineygoblue]

IMO, Barry Bonds doesn't deserve to be placed ahead of Hank Aaron in the home run records.

Hank did it with skill and raw power.

Bonds did it with drugs. Same goes for all who used drugs to gain fame and records. None of those records should stand.

Just IMO ...

[iam416]

Well, I agree with that. But I also think that Barry Bonds is definitively a HoFer. There's no planet, e.g., where Larry Walker is a better player than Barry Bonds.

[Mike]

Sosa didn't make it either. All three of him, Bonds, and Clemens were in their 10th and final year of eligibility. Although, they can always get in later through the veterans committee or however Trammel and Morris got in.

The irony with Bonds and Clemens is they both would have been first ballot HOFers before they ever started juicing in the late 90s. They went from great to video game cartoonish. BUT, most people were taking something at the time that has since been made illegal.

It’s all about contrition for the writers. A-Rod only got 35%.

[iam416]

For Sosa, his career arc more or less parallels PED use. I would have more hesistancy with him. However, as noted, Bonds and Clemens were HOFers before PED use. Easily. Bonds may not be the deserved all-time HR champ and Clemens may not be the greatest RHP of all-time -- claims enhanced by PEDs -- but they were both great, great players. And, to reiterate, the BWAA can go staight to hell.

Again, on what planet is Larry Walker better than Barry Bonds? Next year it looks like Scott fucking Rolen will make the HOF. In what fucking galaxy is Scott Rolen better than Barry Bonds?

[iam416]

The Veterans Committee seems way more lax than the BWAA. I mean, Harold Baines is in the HOF. FFS, HAROLD BAINES.

Also, the BWAA saw fit to vote Bagwell in. IMO, there's zero chance he didn't take a fuckton of PEDs. Zero. Ditto for Ivan Rodriguez.

[Mike]

I know he was a roided up asshole but goddamn...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ondsba01.shtml

[iam416]

His 2004 season, I think, is still the stupidest of all-time. 0.609....ON BASE! That's 100% insane. 230....WALKS. That's what happens when you take a player who is ALREADY the best offensive player in the game, and PED him up.

His 1986-98 numbers are HOF numbers alone. From 1990-98 he was at least 20/20....EVERY. FUCKING. SEASON. In his first full 12 seasons he was not 20/20 twice...one year when he hit 19 HRs and one year where he only stole 17.

[iam416]

I think everyone pretty much agrees that Bonds went full PED for the 2000 season. His career numbers for 1986-99 are 445 HRs and 450 SBs (approximately). And 3 MVPs. And for advanced metric fucks, leading the league in WAR like 7 out of 9 years.

There is no argument that he didn't have a HOF career. Only that he took PEDs after he was already a HOFer.

I think you can make roughly the same case for Clemens, but it's not quite as dramatic -- still pretty compelling.

[Mike]

The most likely explanation I've heard re: his PED use was it was in direct response to the McGuire-Sosa HR battle of 1998. It captivated the country like I'd never seen before. I mean, live cut-ins during prime time network programming to watch their at-bats?? Bonds was sitting there as one of the greatest to ever play the game at that point and was hardly a household name. He went into "hold my beer" mode after that as you can see from the 4 straight MVP seasons to start the 2000s.

That 2004 stat line is so insane. 617 plate appearances and 373 at-bats, 120 intentional walks. Was that the year someone walked him with the bases loaded?

His career was really in two parts. The speedster and all-around great athlete to the hulking slugger. In 1990 he had 33 HRs and 52 SBs. That's nuts. The only year he struck out over a 100 times was his rookie season. If not for an OPS of .999 in 2006, he would have finished over 1.000 for the last 16 consecutive seasons of his career.

[Mike]

The timeframe is a bit arbitrary (12 years?) but a little interesting still

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Is there a correct answer? I'd say all 3 AL division leaders not winning the WS.

[iam416]

Bonds 1993 season was phenomenal. He left the Pirates (sadly) for the Giants and single-handedly carried them to almost the NL West title. I think they won 102 and finished one game behind the Braves -- almost entirely on the strength of Bonds.