US Politics - 2020 Presidential Election - GOP v Dem cage fight (ENTER AT YOUR PERIL)

[-Deborah-]

Back in the day, nobody really talked about politics that I can remember, it was better this way.

We shouldn't have it in this forum, when it was first banned, it made Lion talk a lot better.

We've had it from the start. In the Freep days, there was a politics thread that would occasionally get pretty heated. I remember discussing abortion back then (around 1998-2000 or so?). I feel like NBT and I went a round on that topic back then or maybe it was later on. I also remember how upset I got, too. I had to ban myself from the thread in order to regain my composure. If the discussions in this thread bother someone, they should just avoid them. If politics are starting to get pushed into football threads, please report it so I can take care of it. This ridiculous 80 pound puppy of mine is consuming my life and I am woefully behind in the football discussions.

[JGSpartan]

Just to be clear.... my idiocy, or the Texas guy?

The Texas guy

[JGSpartan]

We've had it from the start. In the Freep days, there was a politics thread that would occasionally get pretty heated. I remember discussing abortion back then (around 1998-2000 or so?). I feel like NBT and I went a round on that topic back then or maybe it was later on. I also remember how upset I got, too. I had to ban myself from the thread in order to regain my composure. If the discussions in this thread bother someone, they should just avoid them. If politics are starting to get pushed into football threads, please report it so I can take care of it. This ridiculous 80 pound puppy of mine is consuming my life and I am woefully behind in the football discussions.

I make a conscious effort to separate the conversations in this thread from the rest of the forum but it's not always successful. Not that I bring politics into the other topics but thoughts and attitudes about people carry over and I think that's what Froot is getting at.

[-Deborah-]

I make a conscious effort to separate the conversations in this thread from the rest of the forum but it's not always successful. Not that I bring politics into the other topics but thoughts and attitudes about people carry over and I think that's what Froot is getting at.

Fair point, but I still suggest avoiding the political threads if that's the case.

We can get rid of them entirely, too. But I don't think that will change much here.

[chemiclord]

Hey, for what it's worth, I think you're all bellends regardless of your politics!

But I think Deb's got the right of it. At some point, we're going to flash our political beliefs in any topic of conversation given enough time. We might not think it's political in nature, but it is, and it'll lead to exact same bickering.

[CGVT]

Hey, for what it's worth, I think you're all bellends regardless of your politics!

But I think Deb's got the right of it. At some point, we're going to flash our political beliefs in any topic of conversation given enough time. We might not think it's political in nature, but it is, and it'll lead to exact same bickering.

Oh no. We know exactly what we are doing. ;)

[CGVT]

Oh. And BTW, the parties are not the same.

DV9vXeaVMAE9z0D.jpg

[Marko69]

As a nice warm fence sitter with regards to the USA, that graph tells me both parties are THE SAME!!
Look at all that blue…… and your country is still fucked.
Look at that lack of red……. and your country is still fucked.
Thats the same, no? 🤷♂️

Don’t start on the UK……. We’re taking “FUCKED” to whole new depths.

[CGVT]

As a nice warm fence sitter with regards to the USA, that graph tells me both parties are THE SAME!!
Look at all that blue…… and your country is still fucked.
Look at that lack of red……. and your country is still fucked.
Thats the same, no? 🤷♂️

Don’t start on the UK……. We’re taking “FUCKED” to whole new depths.

The problem is that none of what the blue votes for can get through because they don't have enough votes in the Senate to get things passed. It is too easy for the "red" (with the help of a couple of red leaning Democrats) to stop any legislation so we end up not enacting legislation that the vast majority of the country supports. (simplified explanation)

So, yes, we are fucked.

[Da Geezer]

No, the problem is that chart is absolute bullshit.

What is true is that people who work in the private sector tend to vote R. People who get the majority of their income from the government sector tend to vote D. There is well over 50% of the population that gets its income from the government. That is why the Ds control the House, Senate, and the Presidency.

If you read this thread, you will notice that everyone's default position is that government is good, and it is the policy prescriptions of the two major parties that create arguments. I say, the less government the better, and we should disperse power whenever we have a chance. For example, if the Roe decision actually comes out of the SC as we expect, it transfers the abortion decision to the states. That disburses power, and that is good.

[CGVT]

Yawn.

[JGSpartan]

Yeah, the need for 60 votes on most things in the senate has transitioned to little getting done unless one party has the presidency, the house and 60 senators. It didn't used to be a bad thing.

The same 60 vote filibuster breaking threshold that used to force bipartisanship was once very good at doing just that. In my opinion, the erosion of that is the start of the divide with blame for that being shared by both parties. I can elaborate if wanted on my opinion on that but I'm probably already going on a bit much unsolicited.

Adding to that is the further divide in ideals. The right has become a party of no spending at all unless its to keep people out of the country and the left wants to massively overspend and push for 10 million things at once. Both parties just waiting/hoping for total control to do anything.

I'd also bet the same Republicans who are now against the elimination of the filibuster would be for it if they were to get the house, presidency and 50 senators again. It's a very safe bet. The democrats will suddenly be against it. Both parties stances have already shifted more than once with It's a power battle that could easily lead to the downfall of the nation or at least the downfall of its democracy.

[ghandi]

It's frustrating now that senators don't vote on what they feel is right or wrong anymore, or what the best solution would be...They vote 100% on the party agenda

[Futureshock]

Oh. And BTW, the parties are not the same.

DV9vXeaVMAE9z0D.jpg

Wow. There is some facts in there that don't support some of the narratives Republicans state and claim.

[Futureshock]

No, the problem is that chart is absolute bullshit.

What is true is that people who work in the private sector tend to vote R. People who get the majority of their income from the government sector tend to vote D. There is well over 50% of the population that gets its income from the government. That is why the Ds control the House, Senate, and the Presidency.

If you read this thread, you will notice that everyone's default position is that government is good, and it is the policy prescriptions of the two major parties that create arguments. I say, the less government the better, and we should disperse power whenever we have a chance. For example, if the Roe decision actually comes out of the SC as we expect, it transfers the abortion decision to the states. That disburses power, and that is good.

If you say it, it must be true right?

Right on cue is the all to certain refrain of, "no it's not true because I don't like how it sounds." You give no link or justification outside of your own opinion.

Which is absolutely wrong. You obviously have not read much of this thread because, almost to a man and woman, most feel the Government is not "good" (I don't know how this is an applicable argument when "good" and "bad" are subjective and unarguable. Worthless as a statement). IJUST made a post about eliminating said government. Which proves you haven't really read anything right? Here's a blub:

Here's an idea that will unite the majority of politicians; eliminate all political parties and make them illegal.

I sound really happy with Government right?

You read all these posts and you flame everyone with that? Next up, the big bad Dems are picking on you and "You know what I meant."

No the absolute bullshit is the fact you will deny facts and drum on about nonsense you can't prove and facts you can't disprove. Well save the, "______ is absolute bullshit" take. Sick burn dude. You told everyone what's what because you have it all thought out.

I have worked in Government for over three decades and the private sector for almost 2 decades and have found no discernable difference in the ratio. I have worked for the Federal, State and local Governmental entities.

Here's a hint bub. No matter who you work for, you want your money spent correctly. People who work at an organization/company are usually spot on as what is right/wrong there. So maybe they aren't playing to your fallacies.

What specifically do you want to eliminate in "Government" Cops? FBI? They're Government right? Or are we eliminating the "Government" that doesn't agree with your views? Government should be reviewed so we're not buying $50 screws and such but I would bet $100 that you don't want the defense budget cut. Efficiency is what works today. Not working hard. You just end up wasting time and effort. Not throwing money at problems. THINKING through issues and getting to the very root of what is wrong there.

I worked for a municipality that had a big problem of having a lot of injuries that was costing a ton of money. Specifically from the Waste Collection division of the DPW. The basis of which I found was the waste collectors were lifting an enormous amount of weight a day. Generally above the weight of a Yugo a day. On a days with rain or snow that was double. Citizens not knowing the code and ordinances, were putting way too much bags and weight at the curb. Which, by ordinance, if over a certain weight, was supposed to be a special collection (with equipment to aid in the lifting or additional collectors to lower the daily amount per employee). But the local politicians would not be ok with this because they didn't want people to be upset and not vote for them. The issue at it's root was communication. I got the Municipality to issue a letter to all citizens of the ordinance. And the amount of these type of pickups were lessened by 87%. Thusly, over $1 mil was saved a year from less crippling injuries.

THAT is what we should be doing. AND (you'll like this part) it did result in less workers, working more efficiently allowed us to save money with less people. And we actually started to not fall behind too. Of course after we all retired the Mayor at the time tried to use our ideas (and it allowed him to stay in office for 2 terms) until they ran out and then they went back to the dumb old system of "Over pay" or "Eliminate." That department was eliminated and they have eliminated so much that I don't know how they're even viable.

Point is, Big Pharma, Big Gubernment, etc.. is dog whistles that sound great when having a conversation with someone else who has the same indoctrination. However, when you are having a conversation with the rest of us (GDI or even Dems) it really sounds like what it is. Excuses.

I have no affiliation politically. But I am forced to choose the party that doesn't endear my enemy. Locally I have voted Republican, but I can't support foolishness that endear racists and publicly shuns individual rights. Locally, I have the "Cost control" Republicans.

So upstanding that the Republican party is trying to eliminate "Big Vote" too huh? Yet here in Michigan, the top 5 Republicans to try and un-seat the Democrat Governor were found to be CHEATING and do not have enough signatures to run in the next election. Maybe your party should start with being the people they say they aren't. Snakes. Here's a hint, they aren't and none of any of these nimrods GAF about us. Until it's time to vote.