Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

It's propaganda. And it's a very interesting question for the left. Should propaganda be countered with propaganda? Is it OK to take the shocking statistics about income inequality and blow them up into that kind of statement. Would it have been better to just point to the numbers and not risk the recklessness of that statement?

I honestly don't know. If you're facts-driven these days there's plenty of evidence to suggest that you've lost many an argument to people who have no problem with that kind of aggressive approach to information. Look at Kapture and his Democrats/slavery nonsense. People lap up that shit. The climate problem is another great example of how you can lose a public-policy debate by sticking to the facts.

[THE_WIZARD_]

STFU

[hack]

IMO the question of whether there are any lessons about democratic socialism from Venezuela is an entirely different matter. Venezuela is a petrostate. It had a horribly run state oil company and its cash flow was used by Chavez to buy friends across the hemisphere. That one sentence captures far more of the extent of the Venezuelan economy than it should.

But state oil companies don't have to be horribly run, or vehicles for other policy goals. Plenty are run competently, at least in comparison with the private-sector alternatives. State cos. control four fifths of reserves and more than half of output. The following is a very crude metric, but Deepwater Horizon wasn't those guys. Or Exxon Valdez, or the latest Transcanada Pipelines spill.

[Kapture1]

It's propaganda. And it's a very interesting question for the left. Should propaganda be countered with propaganda? Is it OK to take the shocking statistics about income inequality and blow them up into that kind of statement. Would it have been better to just point to the numbers and not risk the recklessness of that statement?

I honestly don't know. If you're facts-driven these days there's plenty of evidence to suggest that you've lost many an argument to people who have no problem with that kind of aggressive approach to information. Look at Kapture and his Democrats/slavery nonsense. People lap up that shit. The climate problem is another great example of how you can lose a public-policy debate by sticking to the facts.

you could try to refute it. You won't though. Because it really can't be unless you are lying or are relying on that "aggressive approach to information"

[iam416]

Any economic collapse of the magnitude in Venezuela is likely due to multiple reasons. It's impossible, IMO, not to think that democratic socialism didn't play a significant part in that collapse. So, when authoring an article as to who, when, where and what, it stands out that the why isn't every really offered, at least not THAT why.

In any event, it's a human tragedy and it's unlikely to get better as it moves from democratic socialism to authoritarian socialism -- which I wouldn't rate as particularly surprising.

I also certainly agree that scare tactics propaganda is part and parcel to the climate change debate.

[CGVT]

Stupid assed memes twisting statistics, misrepresenting data and outright lying is the way of the right.

Anybody with a lick of sense knows that the history of the parties are not the same as they were 150 years ago, but the dumbasses still try to bring up the " but they was Dems, lulz" bullshit and the uninformed eat that shit up.

FFS Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond were Democrats for most of their political careers, but they certainly don't represent the values of today's Democratic Party.

It is stupid. Some believe it, some are trolling. All are stupid.

[iam416]

I should also note, that I don't think Sanders comments about Venezuela were at all propaganda. I think those were and ARE sincerely held thoughts (except that he'd probably remove Venezuela as an example). Chavez was a golden boy for some in those circles, including Sanders who loved his success story under democratic socialism. I don't think it'd be very hard to find a NYT article on the Chavez miracle that touts his particular form of socialism.

[AlabamAlum]

A really nice topping for vanilla ice cream is this maple praline stuff.

Reduce two cups of maple syrup over and add 1 cup of chopped pecans and one quarter stick of salted butter.

Let cool a bit and drizzle over a good vanilla bean ice cream.

[Kapture1]

Stupid assed memes twisting statistics, misrepresenting data and outright lying is the way of the right.

Anybody with a lick of sense knows that the history of the parties are not the same as they were 150 years ago, but the dumbasses still try to bring up the " but they was Dems, lulz" bullshit and the uninformed eat that shit up.

FFS Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond were Democrats for most of their political careers, but they certainly don't represent the values of today's Democratic Party.

It is stupid. Some believe it, some are trolling. All are stupid.

[Kapture1]

Next wanna discuss the voting breakdown of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments?

The political parties are not the same as they were 150 years ago lol

correct, the south became majority republican after big industry moved down south.

There wasn't ONE SINGLE Jim Crow Law voted in by a republican legislature or signed by a republican governor.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I think what hack is saying is...

"...all we are saying is....give socialism a chance..."

[hack]

I'm not in Sanders' head.

Look -- oil counts for 55% of GDP there and 95% of state revenues. Roughly the same concentration in Saudi. In a country like that, it comes down to two things -- are you managing the fields properly and did you bank some money when oil prices are high to use when they are low.

Period. Ideological nonsense is ideological nonsense. Venezuela would be bumping along if oil prices didn't fall. Oil prices fell for reasons that had nothing to do with the type of government in Venezuela. Extrapolate away if you wish. Your next move, if you wanted to fairly evaluate Bernie and make this at all relevant to reality today in the US, would be to ask if he things democratic socialism means nationalizing US oil fields.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Just give Bernie a chance. I think the fact that his is a Marxist should not be counted against him at all. We elected a Muslim twice!

[hack]

A really nice topping for vanilla ice cream is this maple praline stuff.

Reduce two cups of maple syrup over and add 1 cup of chopped pecans and one quarter stick of salted butter.

Let cool a bit and drizzle over a good vanilla bean ice cream.

That's Democratic Socialism in action. Canada features a strategic reserve of maple syrup. We are a resources-driven economy that understands how to do it and won't rely on the invisible hand. Similar to how the Saudis use their dominant-producer status over another type of commodity to control world markets. Proper resource-exporter policy is non-partisan.

[iam416]

Bernie is an avowed socialist. He championed Chavez and Venezuela as more suitable to achieving the American dream than, well, America. Chavez's Venezuela was a democratic socialist government. I certainly don't profess to be in anyone's head, Bernie or otherwise, but I think of myself as at least semi-sentient and periodically rational. The dots are children's menu easy to connect.