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  • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post

    Well, it's where we are. Why are we here? Because reasonable people are outraged by the president's public conduct.
    people need to get off their period.

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    • Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan View Post
      Interesting take on SA and the Kashoggi affair from, surprisingly, the NYT. The gist of the story is that Trump is correct in his strategic assessment of the role of SA in undermining Iranian power and influence in the region and should therefore not create instability within the Saudi kingdom that might weaken it or cause them to tack to the Russians for shelter.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/o...khashoggi.html
      in a world where the last administration emboldened Iran, SA is now an important ally unfortunately. for now.

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      • 1. To be clear, that's not really a NYT article. It's an op-ed by people who work for two thinktanks, whose biases and sources of funding can be checked. This is some pretty shaky logic:



        King Salman is the de jure ruler. That would be the person you go to to change the de facto ruler. And a policy seeking to change the king's mind is already bearing fruit, in that Salman is reportedly adding some sort of informal level of oversight over MbS. So that should be factored in when reading this op-ed. That the authors have to ignore things they know in order to make an argument that looks credible on the surface.


        2. I agree about realpolitic, Jeff. It's somewhat important to encase the hardass policy in a softer shell. Which leads to Iraq/WMD/nationbuilding/hearts&minds, etc. Which is an invitation to think about the downsides to that kind of realism. When you tell too many noble lies they aren't noble anymore.


        3. But, ultimately, realism has to be a major element of any policy process. The real policy question here is a matter of US interests abroad. We say over and over that Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. We never question the accuracy of that statement. Under an America First approach we shouldn't care primarily about who is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. We should care who is the largest exporter of it to the U.S. Which is obviously Saudi. Which obviously has so much more money to spend exporting terrorism than Iran does. It's not even close, especially when you factor in the underreported system for fund mosque-building and imam placement in US, and question from a realpolitic standpoint why we should care about the safety of Yemenis in Yemen, or even Syrians in Syria. Those battlefields aren't close to where we are.

        Caveat for #3: that paragraph assumes that the people who set policy are doing so on behalf of the country and not their own narrowly-defined interests.



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        • happy Thanksgiving everyone, even the haters and losers


          5QlKGxy.jpg

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          • All of my ignored posters were reset. I went to the Lions game thread and saw Krapture is posting. Apparently the NFL boycott is over. Ha!

            Then I came to this thread and saw the shit that he posts. I had forgotten what a child he is.

            Time to reset.
            I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it on

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            • Haha

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              • My sons car died so I bought him a nice 3 year old used car from a really nice guy and his son yesterday. When he open the trunk, a John James lawn sign was in there lol and he said "oops I forgot that was there". I said its ok - I was hoping he would win.

                He said oh ok, then told me he was a Dearborn Policemen and wow was he not happy to say the least. Some of the story's he told me how he is treated were horrible, he said he is retiring early because the 'politics' and abuse there on law enforcement.

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                • Screenshot 2018-11-22 at 7.42.16 PM.png
                  I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it on

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                  • Thank me, thank me, thank me very much.

                    On this Thanksgiving, Donald Trump is thankful for his family – as well as the “tremendous difference” he has made as President.


                    “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.” - Groucho Marx

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                    • A Navy officer pushed back on Trump during those fiasco phone calls. Switching back to steam catapults to launch planes from aircraft carriers has been a pet cause for Trump for some goddamned reason. Probably just one of his "I know more than the experts" things. Little does this officer know he's about to be transferred to some outpost in the Aleutians for the rest of his career.



                      For background

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                      • LOL. Sharks with frickin' laser beams.

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                        • 0s2otgc5i0021.jpg?width=480&auto=webp&s=ead48988ddcf0cb0597936bd73af5e1bacfcc16e.jpg

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                          • Ha! How would anyone know?
                            I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it on

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                            • Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
                              A Navy officer pushed back on Trump during those fiasco phone calls. Switching back to steam catapults to launch planes from aircraft carriers has been a pet cause for Trump for some goddamned reason. Probably just one of his "I know more than the experts" things. Little does this officer know he's about to be transferred to some outpost in the Aleutians for the rest of his career.
                              Lol.

                              Classic.

                              The guy is a magician.

                              I wonder how many of these sorts of interactions happen every day and Trump leaves the conversation still feeling he won because he plays it off like every answer was always the desired outcome.

                              I'd bet a lot.

                              Still waiting on Kapture's Basic Training ship date. Never responded to my request to shoot non-cuck weapons.

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