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Originally posted by Jeff Buchanan
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Watch for trouble tomorrow night. They have a $83 million payment due. Another big payment next week.
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It was obvious when NYC instituted their vaccine mandate that it would have a largely negative effect on the black community. According to this article, 72% of black New Yorkers ages 18-44 are unvaccinated.
Remember when the Carmine's story was about those stupid, unvaccinated, rednecks from Texas who started a ruckus at a NYC restaurant? Now that those involved have been identified as black, they are victims of obvious racism by Carmine's employees.
It also seems they aren't too keen on the vaccine mandate in NYC. I wonder if they know which party is to blame for that.
Chivona Newsome, the other co-founder of BLM NYC:
“Seventy-two percent of black people in this city from ages 18 to 44 are unvaccinated. So what is going to stop the Gestapo, I mean the NYPD, from rounding up black people, from snatching them off the train, off the bus?” she added.
Chivona Newsome suggested that if these incidents continue, Black Lives Matter could revolt to exact justice like it did after George Floyd’s death.
“We’re putting this city on notice, that your mandate will not be another racist social-distance practice. Black people are not going to stand by, or you will see another uprising. And that is not a threat; that is a promise,” she said. “The vaccination passport is not a free passport to racism.”
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My prediction:
The mandate will be waved for black people but it will stay for white people.Comment
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Sounds reasonableShut the fuck up Donny!Comment
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I want to address the two arguments presented here (excluding the abortion argument): The first is local vaccine mandates. Let's bound that. I assume you're talking about Biden's authority to issue what appears to be broad vaccine mandates that apply to places outside federally regulated work places; this authority then trickles down to the "local" level giving authority to "local" officials to require them in a number of public and private settings in their jurisdictions. I'm also assuming by using the world "upheld" you're talking about the 1905 USSC decision to allow a requirement for vaccination v. measles if they want to go to school.Originally posted by iam416 View Post
I'm not suggesting you don't know this as I am certain you do but it is the application of the EEOC regulations that give authority to employers to mandate vaccination in the work place. That's one place where legal challenges to it face a tough climb if a challenge is filed.
The second argument involves assessing the risks of COVID. It is undeniable that the risk of serious illness from this disease is low. Those advancing this line of thinking as a means of dismissing attempts to control the spread of SARS2 are missing the important point I've been trying to bridge to without, apparently, much success in trying to do so. I think it is clear that in considering various mitigation measures, the scientific evidence isn't being considered or if it even is, it results in mitgation measures that are too restrictive and exceed the costs of them when the net PH benefit is close to zero - masking and social distancing the kids in school is a good example. These both have some positive impact in a lab setting where other factors (e.g. location dynamics, properly worn masks, etc). But in practice neither does much, i.e. cost v. benefit - I can link to the studies and I know people here have seen them. We know the facts here. Don't care. Why?
Because it is undeniable that the public's COVID fear factor and PH officials strongly influenced in their PH obligations to "do something' are basing implementation of overly restrictive and functionally useless mitigation measures on rising new case number. There are a few others metrics we are told they use but myself and others have made a strong case that all of them are terribly flawed. Garbage in, garbage out.
Which leads me to my point. There is no denying that vaccines blunt rising new case numbers. None. There is no denying that rising new case numbers are occurring predominantly in the unvaxed (largely excluding the recovered). There is no denying that if you choose to use deaths and hospitalizations as a metric to assess disease impact regionally and locally, the vaccinated are lessening it, the unvaxed increasing it. It is what it is even though you'd wish officials would assess the risks and decide on appropriate PH measures but that's not what they've been doing now and since the start of this sit sandwich. If we want to stop the non-sense take actions that specifically involve wide spread vaccination and paying other than lip-service to testing and tracking. Implementing policies like this unquestionably make a difference in lowering new case numbers. Those policies I'm advocating for have been adopted in most of Europe and elsewhere. The net results is demonstrably lowered new case number counts - THE metric that has the the greatest potential to create the basis for PH officials to impose more an more mobility and social interaction restrictions with very little, if any, consideration for the actual absolute COVID risks of infections, serious illness or death..... like I said up thread and endless cycle of rinse and repeat. That's what we're up against in the US. (The EU is yellow)
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If the US stopped dicking around entertaining mostly unsupportable arguments against the steps I've advocated for here and dismissed the politically motivated objections to doing these things and just do them, the US would stop looking like it does, public confidence would rise along with economic activity and jobs, life would return to near normal. The folks would cede some liberties and be somewhat inconvenienced but the pay-off could be huge and chances are, based on the facts on the ground, they would be.Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. JH chased Saban from Alabama and caused Day, at the point of the OSU AD's gun, to make major changes to his staff just to beat Michigan. Love it. It's Moore!!!! timeComment
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Man, that Iowa poll is really not good for the Chairman. That portends very bad things in, say, Wisconsin and possibly even M. I mean, if the Rs were to run a passably viable candidate. That, of course, remains way up in the air.
JFC. The choices we have. JMFC.Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.Comment
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...... re Mike's post, that is sad. The EU has some race problems but not like this. I suspect that unfortuneatly this sort of calculation - the risk of ritoing - is taken into account in how hard you push for everyone to get vaccinated.Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. JH chased Saban from Alabama and caused Day, at the point of the OSU AD's gun, to make major changes to his staff just to beat Michigan. Love it. It's Moore!!!! timeComment
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So, first, the EEOC actually has to have the authority to do this, and it's unclear that they do. Second, they actually have to follow proper rule-making processes. The Chairman has indicated they will not do that. Third, the rule has to be rationally based and, e.g., not considering those who have already had Covid as "vaccinated" (or, alternatively, possessed of Covid antibodies) is a real issue. The WaPo is even starting to glom on to the actual science regarding the immunity of Covid "survivors."I'm not suggesting you don't know this as I am certain you do but it is the application of the EEOC regulations that give authority to employers to mandate vaccination in the work place. That's one place where legal challenges to it face a tough climb if a challenge is filed.
As for my second argument -- I'm not arguing anything on a policy basis. I'm arguing it on a legal basis. You have a situation where the government is compelling someone to do something to their body or they will be fined or excluded access or fired or whatever. The justification for such an remarkably intrusive rule is based on a grave or serious public health risk. That was the case in 1905. And my counterexample is that I don't think government can compel the flu vaccine. So, the question, IMO, that a Court is at least somewhat likely to address is whether or not the risk justifies the intrusion and where does Covid fall.
To that end, as we all know: (a) there exists an option for most Americans to protect themselves; and (b) that protection confers some real goddamn protection. I think those facts are something a Court would consider in assessing the circumstances.
So, to reiterate -- there aren't a whole bunch of "black line" rules in the law. Most are dependent on the circumstances, and the Courts do their best to define the outer contours of rights/powers while allowing for some flexibility. You would see this free speech caselaw or abortion caselaw or search and seizure case law or, well, lots of others. The extent to which the government can intrude upon your rights is very much dependent on specific circumstances or the justification proffered. Now, whether you think those circumstances warrant Covid being treated more like the measles or the flu -- that's where your terse explanations come into play.
I'm just point out that just because they said you can mandate vaccination in 1905 for measles doesn't mean they'll say the same thing for Covid.Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.Comment
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The Chairman clocks in at 44-51 in the latest NPR poll.Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.Comment
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Thanks for those comments. I'm not big on posting links to articles that suggest you ought to get vaccinated. I'm still supportive of personal choice when it comes to decisions about getting vaccinated or not. I just want people who adopt that standard to see the costs - ridiculous, highly disruptive and mostly useless mitigation measures based on bad data and more than likely more dead people on the planet and consider them.
But this piece in my AP news feed has some good points beyond the superficiality of the common press narrative that things are bad and getting worse ..... sort of gives some context to those narratives in that there are othr narratives possible. I still believe the US would be better off at home and contirbute to an improved global outcome by planning for the worst and hoping for better outcomes.
COVID-19 has now killed about as many Americans as the 1918-19 Spanish flu pandemic did — approximately 675,000.
The U.S. population a century ago was just one-third of what it is today, meaning the flu cut a much bigger, more lethal swath through the country. But the COVID-19 crisis is by any measure a colossal tragedy in its own right, especially given the incredible advances in scientific knowledge since then and the failure to take maximum advantage of the vaccines available this time.
“Big pockets of American society — and, worse, their leaders — have thrown this away,” medical historian Dr. Howard Markel of the University of Michigan said of the opportunity to vaccinate everyone eligible by now.
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To those unvaccinated individuals who are counting on infection rather than vaccination for immune protection, Kimball said, “The trouble is, you have to survive infection to acquire the immunity.” It’s easier, she said, to go to the drugstore and get a shot.
Again, contrast most of Europe whose leadership has been hard ass in controlling the spread through tough policy choices functionally mandating vaccines in various ways by lawfully curtailing what the unvaxed can do in the conduct of daily life. They've also, correctly IMO, adapted wide spread and rigorous testing and tracking mechanisms developed in European countries and states that conform with existing privacy laws.
https://apnews.com/article/science-h...%20Subscribers
PS, effective last week, the EUC Health Authority will no longer accept self administered antigen tests of any kind as proof of not being infected (there's a 10d grace period through 10/8) . It's Molecular tests (e.g., PCR, NAAT, others) or nothing. The EU and Swiss COVID Certificates (in paper form or on an APP) store your vaccination record and the results of any COVID tests you've had so you can display them to gain entry to various venues that require them (not all but most do). Each valid test or vaccination has a QR code with a description of the test, when it was administered and by whom and to whom). That and ID have to data match (names).
As well, only validated vaccinations can be entered into and stored on the APP. For the app or paper based EU vaccination certificate the US CDC vaccination card (among other non-EU cards showing proof of vaccination) is no longer accepted. Fraud has been common. Like I said, these guys are serious about getting the virus to manageable levels. My sense is there is low risk for this sort of thing to expand into other aspects of life that would be contrary to anything I would support. Even now, there are ongoing protests about this stuff although it's muted compared to the US and the press supports the governments postions not the crazies'. Given what is known about the virus' behavior, these controll measures are going to be around for a long time. Holding out against adopting such things in the US only complicates the ability of Americans to move freely on a global basis.Last edited by Jeff Buchanan; September 21, 2021, 10:43 AM.Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. JH chased Saban from Alabama and caused Day, at the point of the OSU AD's gun, to make major changes to his staff just to beat Michigan. Love it. It's Moore!!!! timeComment
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We can be Australia too, but we are fundamentally unique as a country. We are not Europe either, nor should we be.Comment
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Right on point. Facts matter. And any rational cost-benefit analysis says children should not be masked because data shows a 0% chance of death.Originally posted by iam416 View Post
However, all the same logic of the pro-maskers can be used to ban meat or internal combustion engines. I believe 70% of the country would support banning meat and 30% for banning engines. Truthfully, the whole mask debate is trivial were it not for the precedent it sets for future "emergencies". Louisville has already designated systemic racism as a PH emergency. If your goal is to take from the working class and give to the non-working class, you really need some moral basis for increasing taxes and spending. Those who support government mandates claim higher moral ground. Virtue signaling has become second nature to the Woke, who see morality in what you eat, drive, or think.Last edited by Da Geezer; September 21, 2021, 11:41 AM.Comment
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The vaccine has been mandated in Maine for all healthcare workers. Out of 33,000 employees at the two biggest hospital systems, just 65 have resigned.
All 65 have presumably been interviewed by Fox.
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