M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

I don't there is any rational way to evaluate Bo ahead of Paul Brown, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, Ara Parseghian or Woody Hayes. I also think Stoops and Meyer rate ahead of him unless you buy into the nonsense about building a program (and I agree, M was even less relevant in 1968 than they are now) and some sort of pie-in-the-sky notion of the M way or whatever M delusionists want to believe.

But there's zero way he's a top 5 coach from Ohio. To never even play for a national title is a significant black mark. I wonder how many times M has even finished in the top 5 in the past 35 years? I can think of two (1997 and then 1985, I think, when they whipped Nebraska). Maybe one of Moeller's years? Or 1999? Nationally irrelevant.

[Tony G]

[THE_WIZARD_]

whipped Nebraska 27-23? A real whipping...they trailed for most of the game too dickstein...

[Optimus Prime]

I just flew over the Gulf of Mexico. from MIA to IAH (Houston), connecting to LA. This storm is HUGE and slow moving, predicting an 8-12 foot storm surge.

Louisiana, Mississippi & Alabama will drown like rats!

[lineygoblue]

From Tony's storm track, it looks like the mitten may get some of the remnants of the storm on Saturday.

[hack]

I don't there is any rational way to evaluate Bo ahead of Paul Brown, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, Ara Parseghian or Woody Hayes. I also think Stoops and Meyer rate ahead of him unless you buy into the nonsense about building a program (and I agree, M was even less relevant in 1968 than they are now) and some sort of pie-in-the-sky notion of the M way or whatever M delusionists want to believe.


In your particular case, no -- there is not a rational way for you to handle it given the Bo/Woody head-to-head comparison knocks your process of the rails immediately. So you have to start in with the weirdness. That said, given some very wide parameters, I definitely agree regarding the first four. Those are giants of giants. I don't imagine many M fans would argue those four.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Woody had a hell of a left hook though...

[hack]

Special in-Ohio valuation procedures inflate the rankings of coaches willing to punch opposing players.

[lineygoblue]

Well, Paul Brown, Don Shula and Chuck Noll were all NFL coaches. So, I don't think its fair to compare Bo with a coach who spent most/all of their careers in the NFL. Parseghian coached at ND for 11 years. Bo coached at Michigan for 20 years. Bo won or shared B1G Championships 13 times in his 20 years. Parseghian had a .836 winning percentage in 11 years at ND, while Bo had a .785 winning percentage at Michigan over 20 years. So, Bo was hardly a slouch when compared to Parseghian, especially since Bo's career at Michigan was nearly twice as long as Ara's at ND.

I realize people (especially rivals) like to crap all over Schembechler because of his bowl record and lack of national titles. Ultimately, that's the narrow view of most college football fans and sports media. But, what Schembechler did for Michigan during his 20 years, in restoring the program to national prominence, cannot be measured by what a scoreboard says.

[Dr. Strangelove]

If Bo and Woody's accomplishments were presented to a neutral fan, with Woody having more wins, more Rose Bowl wins, the same number of conference titles, and at least three national titles to none, I don't think a single sensible person would go with Bo having the better resume.

Throw in the added fact that the B1G was a considerably tougher and deeper league between 1951-1968 than between 1979-1989. Woody played a tougher schedule and fewer fluff games.

Then ask the same person if there mind would change if they knew Woody's record against Bo was "only" 4-5-1 and I doubt a single sensible person would switch their vote to Bo. The national titles count for a lot more than a one-game difference in the head-to-head

[Tony G]

I really like the Wolverines (just not as rabidly as most on here) but I have to say that for body of work and number of lives touched Woody gets the nod over Bo.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I did not do much research on the NFL end of things but I would feel comfortable saying Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, and Don Shula far outweigh any NFL coaches Michigan can put forward.

I don't know WHY exactly so many more top coaches, college & pro, come from Ohio rather than Michigan, but it's pretty much true.

[UMStan White]

"If Bo and Woody's accomplishments were presented to a neutral fan, with Woody having more wins, more Rose Bowl wins, the same number of conference titles, and at least three national titles to none, I don't think a single sensible person would go with Bo having the better resume."

Man you are really a fucking idiot! Woody was summarily fired for one of the most outrageous acts by anyone who ever coached the game--striking an opposing player because he made the play of the game. Every coach since Woody has been FIRED by the cesspool from the south (Woody,Bruce,Cooper,Tressel)--leaving the game in shame. Cradle of coaches my ass! "Woody gets the nod over Bo" for what? being a total asshole on the sidelines when things didn't go his way? Leaving the game in shame? Losing to Bo more than he won? Losing national championships to Michigan? --yeah he was the shining star of a man possessed and out of control. My guess Tony is that you never really saw Woody coach and how his tantrums and rants shamed the name of the team from Ohio. My guess is that that those douchebags Talent and DSL never saw him coach. My guess is that their history of OShitu started with Bruce and ran through Cooper until Tressel, the greatest hypocrite and subhuman liar and cheat to coach the game came along.

[Dr. Strangelove]

"If Bo and Woody's accomplishments were presented to a neutral fan, with Woody having more wins, more Rose Bowl wins, the same number of conference titles, and at least three national titles to none, I don't think a single sensible person would go with Bo having the better resume."

Man you are really a fucking idiot! Woody was summarily fired for one of the most outrageous acts by anyone who ever coached the game--striking an opposing player because he made the play of the game. Every coach since Woody has been FIRED by the cesspool from the south (Woody,Bruce,Cooper,Tressel)--leaving the game in shame. Cradle of coaches my ass! "Woody gets the nod over Bo" for what? being a total asshole on the sidelines when things didn't go his way? Leaving the game in shame? Losing to Bo more than he won? Losing national championships to Michigan? --yeah he was the shining star of a man possessed and out of control. My guess Tony is that you never really saw Woody coach and how his tantrums and rants shamed the name of the team from Ohio. My guess is that that those douchebags Talent and DSL never saw him coach. My guess is that their history of OShitu started with Bruce and ran through Cooper until Tressel, the greatest hypocrite and subhuman liar and cheat to coach the game came along.

Tony, your courage and honesty is all the more welcome knowing ragers like Stan will berate and scream profanity at you for acknowledging something everyone outside the ivory tower of Ann Arbor knows to be true.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Seems like someone has forgotten a man named Mooch!