M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

What style offense do you think Day will run?

The easy answer is "what they just got done running." That was more Ryan Day than UFM. I don't get particularly hung up on personnel packages and maybe I should. But, they're going to use 3 WRs most of the time with 1 of those being an "H Back" (Jalin Marshall, Curtis Samuel, Paris Campbell/KJ Hill....Jaelen Gill?). They will continue to use a TE as well. So, I'd assume their base is 2 WRs, 1 H, 1 TE, 1 RB with the H subbing out for an extra TE if they want more of a power look and the TE out for more of passing look.

So, they're primarily an 11 team and have been so for the awhile. But, and this is why I don't get hung up on personnel, how you run your 11 can widely vary. Since spready stuff is fundamentally about counting numbers in the box, UFM ran the shit out the ball from 11. Against Oregon they ran Elliot all day on Wam out of 11. Ryan Day prefers to be more pass-oriented so he passes out of 11.

Given where they are with WR talent, I think they'll probably stick to 11. I don't think they have 4 guys that they feel like they HAVE to get on field. Shit, they rotated Hill and Campbell a lot this year, and those two are better than whoever the 4th guy would be next year. Plus, I think they really Jeremy Ruckert at TE. He played enough to NOT redshirt this year, but he still had true frosh blocking issues. But, he can be a real threat from the TE spot.

They'll almost always have a RB, but they will split him out to make it a 00 look to generate favorable matchups.

But, watch the OSU-M game. They did score their 1st TD out of 10 on a crosser to Olave. The next two TD passes were out of 11 and that's what they were in almost the entire game.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Re the Pro-set personnel packages as they are defined. They do provide baseline terminology from which to start a discussion about what styles or schemes various teams run on offense. I like it for that. However, it doesn't account for the running QB very well and that's becasue the pros don't really have those.

When Harbaugh runs a 2X or a 1X or a 0X, it's much easier to defend because you have a pretty clear idea of what he is going to do. When Alabama does it, it's much harder. Their 0X could be a true 0X . . . or it could be a defacto 1X, and away goes Tua. This sort of approach - mixing the run threat a QB presents to a defense - makes it a lot harder for the backers and Ss to know what's coming. Michigan's offense, was not great at holding Ohio State's LBs and DBs in check. It was worse with Florida. Both teams, UF >>> osu, were able to key in on a horizontal 10 yards and smoke M's plays shortly after they got started. That's going to happen when the defense knows exactly what's coming.

That's why I think grafting the RPO into M's offense along with more 2 step drops hitting drag routes, wheel routes, screens and slants stresses the LBs and Ss between the ears a whole lot more than what's happening right now. It didn't take DCs facing M long to figure out M's game plan. See osu and UF. The PA has a place but, as it is now, it's about the only passing play I see pulled out regularly, maybe along with the waggle/roll-out, which is the same thing for all intent and purpose. Neither of these plays is faking anybody out as far as I can tell. A more robust and varied passing game out of what Harbaugh is running now would help

[iam416]

[WM Wolverine]

Tips your hand you're running the ball too.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well, the FB is the third RB in the 23 Personnel formation. To Harbaugh it a power run. Do I like it. No - see 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 v. UF in the Peach on M's possession after the TD was called back. There are variations of that particular play and it was used subsequently v. UF as a counter. Mason usually runs inside and everybody knows it. On this play Mason rand behind a pulling guard over the L guards L hip. It was run on a third and 3 and got 5 yards and produced a first down. Should have gone for a lot more except the S got through the downfield blocking. Well designed play not well executed.

[hack]

Just saw the Woodson post-game interview. No words minced there.

[iam416]

Do I like it. No

That was my question. HARBAUGH!!! does some creative things with the FB, and certainly uses the FB, but on the whole I think the relative value of the FB in today's game is negative. I'd rather have a 3rd WR.

[hack]

Harbaugh loves the idea of having more raw power on the LOS. He keeps trying it in various ways, i.e. Wangler blocking for Mason in short yardage running behind guys like JBB and Onwenu. Certainly it works against inferior teams, but this is kinda like winning a fight by having your buddies hold down the other guy while you punch him.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Sure. In identifying the role of the FB, I was speaking in the context of Harbaugh's offensive philosophy. Within it, the FB is an integral part but do I like the play Harbaugh runs with Mason? I should have said yes, but only when it works .... heh.

Your question begs an answer to the bigger question, do I like Harbaugh's offense?

The answer would not be a categorical no. Schematically, it's a justifiable approach. In terms of production, it's not very good - middling in terms of fancy stats. I don't think we know enough to answer the question why it's not very good. The coaches certainly do. For what they are getting paid, I expect them to act on that knowledge.

Would adding a third receiver and eliminating the FB altogether make it a better offense? As a change to what Harbaugh's doing now schematically, I don't think so. However, if you were to ask me in my terms would I like Harbaugh to run a scheme that based out of 1X formations instead of 2X formations, I think the answer to that would be yes. It might be that JH is simply stuck on the idea that, ultimately, he thinks he can over-power opponents with his approach if he keeps his players and coaches working on it.

My take is that he's not going change from his base 2X formations to a 1X base that I might like better as a means of improving M's offensive production..... or at least I'm preparing mentally for that eventuality.

[hack]

I only follow 2 sports, football and basketball, but in both the trend is rules tweaks to benefit offenses, and specifically those premised on spacing. I would like to think that Harbaugh can figure out a way to do this in the current context. He's learning that he has to. A reason for optimism is that already in the past he's shown the ability to think creatively about grafting new things onto existing structures. A reason for pessimism is that so many coaches make their careers on one flash of brilliance, ride it for a few years until it's figured out, and then struggle.

[iam416]

Harbaugh loves the idea of having more raw power on the LOS.

Yeah, so if that's the case then I'd bring in an extra TE. Unless your FB is your best available blocking option.

My take is that he's not going change from his base 2X formations to a 1X base that I might like better as a means of improving M's offensive production..... or at least I'm preparing mentally for that eventuality.

I think you're right and you're right to mentally prepare for it.

[hack]

Roster doesn't have great TEs right now, but he's certainly done that and wants to. And, of course, you can always line up a TE at FB and hand off to him on a crucial third down when you've never done such a thing before.

[iam416]

I'm not arguing that there aren't advantages to a FB. I actually think HARBAUGH!!!! does about as good a job of using a FB as humanly possible. My belief, though, is that the FB is a relative disadvantage. Situationally that may change, but overall I believe it to be true, and believe it to be true with M's roster. As a general matter, I would rather have M's 3rd WR on the field -- Collins? Perry? Black? than Ben Mason.

[iam416]

Also, I think it's getting really, really safe to say that Justin Fields will transfer to Ohio State. Now the question is the waiver. I have to say, I'm not opposed to the idea of Fields in a Ryan Day/Yurcich/Kevin Wilson system. That could work.

[WM Wolverine]

Or a second TE even.