M-Borg vs. THE Flavortown U Thread, Orig. by Buckeye Paul, absconded w/by talent.

[iam416]

Or a second TE even.

Right.

The FB indicates a run and then, very likely, is another data point on the field that shows you where the run is going. Now, HARBAUGH!!! does do some misdirection things, but it's mostly follow the FB if the FB is in the game. The FB upside, IMO, is just so low.

I'm sure people have done it, but I would love to see positions quantified in terms of yards over replacement (YOR!) in a comp to baseball. How many yards per play can you expect with a FB in vs with a 3rd WR? And also do the median.

[hack]

That comment about TE at FB was ironic. I wholeheartedly agree that when you have Black, DPJ and Collins, you do something with that.

[iam416]

I'm not on my game today. In that case, HEH. Only thing better than a 2nd TE is a 3rd TE!

Black/DPJ/Colllins are all true WRs. So maybe you only have 2 spots for them. But, that doesn't mean you can't fine a good slot guy/H-back type player. Even if you can't, I think you're still way better off putting one of those guys inside. I'd probably go with DPJ because I love his ability in space, and I think Black and Collins are more true outside guys.

In any event, I don't get Ben Mason/FB over Black or Collins. And, honestly, I'm not sure HARBAUGH!!! is inclined to change. The thing is, even Coach Tressel changed to use his players. Troy Smith's offense wasn't a lick like Craig Krenzel's. When you have Santonio Holmes, Ted Ginn and Anthony Gonzalez, you play them -- a lot! And Troy Smith's offense wasn't like Pryor's offense. They still had base plays that were the same, but they changed a lot. It was never a B12 jugggernaut, but I also never really felt like they were wasting talent.

[iam416]

It's official on Justin Fields. If you put him in the 2018 class Ohio State had -- whoa.

[hack]

That was specifically for you, regardless of whether you are deserving or not. No good deed goes unpunished, I guess.

[iam416]

"Dogooders get what they deserve." -- Papa Talent

[iam416]

Alex Grinch leaves for OU. He was brought in because they assumed Schiano was off to greener pastures. They ended up with 2 would be DCs on their staff and ended up picking Schiano, I assume. Schiano can at least recruit.

Much more disappointing -- Michael Jordan declares for the draft. Would have been really, really nice to have him back to solidify the OL.

[Jeff Buchanan]

..... The FB upside, IMO, is just so low.

Compared to having a third receiver, maybe. But the way Harbaugh looks at it, maybe not. If you need two - three yards for a first down, the FB can get it. In Harbaugh's offense, If I have him right, he's trying to manage a series to get manageable third downs. He's not averse to throwing - we've seen it - on first and second down. Fundamentally, I think he's a ball-control, impose your scheme on the opponent, move the chains play-caller. Who am I to complain about that when it works?

Here's the thing. As an opponent DC, you put Harbaugh's offense behind the chains on any given series and you stress it. The problem I have with Harbaugh's approach, and probably Brown's, is I'm not entirely sure either of them have a plan B when the O is under stress and Brown's defense is getting whipped. Other's have commented on this. Play calling when things don't seem to be working out - on both sides of the ball - looks disorganized. For what reason - and we've seen several, I can't say.

I'm sure people have done it, but I would love to see positions quantified in terms of yards over replacement (YOR!) in a comp to baseball. How many yards per play can you expect with a FB in vs with a 3rd WR? And also do the median.

Well, if I'm Harbaugh, I'm not looking to get 3-4 yards if I dial up a play with 3 wide receiver types in their instead of 2 with 3 dudes who are TEs/FBs/RBs - the 2X thing. I'd say off the top of my head that, yes, a YOR number is going to show a much lower yards per attempt with a FB in on the play than a receiver type.

[hack]

"Go read your Kapuscinski before you're a total lost cause" - Mama Talent

[hack]

If you need two - three yards for a first down, the FB can get it.

Mason came up half a yard short on 3rd or 4th down. Far too many times. Which goes back to the OL. You can't run this offense without a dominant OL. You can live with a meh OL if you're running the spread. I'm sure that in Harbaugh's ideal world things make sense, but that's not the world we live in.

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... just got to thinking about this as I wrote the post above.

We're probably correctly bitching about Harbaugh's offense being predictable. Versus osu and UF, Harbaugh's offense was easy to defend when talent levels on D matched or exceeded M's talent levels on O. That would seem to not be the case in M's 10 wins.

The immediate question that comes to mind is OK, when you're getting beat on both sides of the ball, what do you do about it? I'm not sure in game, there is a whole lot you can do. Once you've baked in a game plan and plays you've worked on n practice, it's hard to change it.

So, Harbaugh may not need to consider some level of whole sale change to his offense, he just needs to think about ways to make what he likes to do less predictable. I've heard observers note that he does have constraints, counters and what not in his running game. I'm not quick enough live or usually good enough on re-play to see these so, I don't know. He is considered to be creative with the run game but it doesn't seem to be improving it that much as a means of deception to make it more effective. Not sure what the reason for that is. The coaches probably know so, I'll leave that to them.

[hack]

IMO it was predictable for everybody on the schedule. It worked often enough against inferior teams. And, that's every year of his tenure, really. He beats the teams he should beat and is 1-10 against Top 10 teams, IIRC.

[iam416]

"Go read your Kapuscinski before you're a total lost cause" - Mama Talent

Correct. But the Soccer War and Shadow of the Sun were sufficient.

As for the FB, it may help with consistency and it may offer higher floor plays, but against good defenses I think you need higher ceiling plays. I think it can be tough to sustain 13 play drives against a quality defense. I'd rather roll with the higher ceiling play. I sort of know what I'm going to get with a FB-lead play or FB trap or whatever.

Anyway, it's an interesting discussion. HARBAUGH!!! obviously knows more football than me.

[hack]

More Kapuscinski; less fullback. The opening of Shah of Shahs is incredible. And, very tight. Ends in less than 200 pages, IIRC.

[iam416]

Polish writers are without peer.